D&D 5E Determining a spellbook value

Satyrn

First Post
One of my players, a 13th level wizard, has just had his spellbook stolen. It's a long story and I won't bore you with the details. Suffice to say, the thief has more use for gold than the book, and is willing to ransom it back to the wizard. I'm wondering how much he should ask for.

I don't know exactly how many spells he's got in the book, but at least 28 (4 at 1st level and 2 for the next 12 levels), plus probably 8 or 10 more that he's picked up along the way.

Obviously, to the wizard, it's invaluable (and I'm betting it'll teach this player to keep back ups from here on), but I'm not sure how to calculate a relative value that the thief should ask for.

Thanks for any advice.

how-about-1.jpg

Okay, that joke out of the way, my suggesting would be . . . 1 million dollars! Well, whatever nice round figure would sound good to a thief who doesn't actually understand the value of a spellbook.

I'd peg that at 1000 gold, but go with whatever number you think would the thief's eyes boggle, his mouth drool.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

One of my players, a 13th level wizard, has just had his spellbook stolen. It's a long story and I won't bore you with the details. Suffice to say, the thief has more use for gold than the book, and is willing to ransom it back to the wizard. I'm wondering how much he should ask for.

I don't know exactly how many spells he's got in the book, but at least 28 (4 at 1st level and 2 for the next 12 levels), plus probably 8 or 10 more that he's picked up along the way.

Obviously, to the wizard, it's invaluable (and I'm betting it'll teach this player to keep back ups from here on), but I'm not sure how to calculate a relative value that the thief should ask for.

Thanks for any advice.

4,700 gp

I won't bore you with the math. ;)

That's what my house rules magic item spreadsheet comes up with for a spell book with 8 1st level, 6 2nd level, 4 3rd-6th level, and 2 7th level spells. You couldn't get as much for it from someone who couldn't benefit from all the spells, and if the wizard had a backup, this would be a bad price for him (cheaper to copy his backup into a new primary).
 


Please bore me with the math :)

It is part of my overall magic item economy fix, but it started with spellbooks so it works as a stand-alone. I have different rules for high-magic (which I consider 5e magic item pricing), medium-magic, and low-magic (I consider 5e magic item assumed frequency to be medium-low) parts of my multiverse. In general I assume something akin to the default 'magic item trade like rare art trade', but there are places where that isn't true (my party just bought 4 bags of holding in Sigil--from two different shops, and each bag was unique, but it was easily doable). However, the rules for spellbooks are the same everywhere, because it works better that way.

In 5e it costs half as much (50 gp/spell level) to copy a spell into your spellbook as it did in 3e (100 gp/spell level).

3e has a suggested price for permission to copy a spell from someone's spellbook (you'd still have to pay to write it into yours) of 50 gp/spell level. So I decided I'd also half that value and say the standard fee is 25 gp/spell level for a spell merchant to let you copy a spell from one of their spellbooks (in their well guarded copying room under the watchful eyes of their golem or such).

So now I need a price scheme for buying a spellbook as an alternative to copying the spells a la carte, that makes sense for both the buyer and the seller.

From the PHB we know the cost to write a spell you already know into a spellbook: 10 gp/spell level. A blank spellbook costs 50 gp (which the spell merchant passes on to the buyer, of course). So we can see what it would cost for the spell merchant to create any particular spellbook (assuming there is no limit to how many spells you can fit in it, not a good assumption, but multiple books wouldn't be that big of a deal).

The spell merchant isn't likely to to sell spells in a spellbook for much less than he'd sell permission to copy them ala carte. So let's set the lower price for a spellbook at the same 25 gp/spell level (+50 gp for the book). For the high end of the pricing, I decided a simple doubling would be a good idea. The 50 gp/per spell level is the same as what it costs to learn/scribe a spell, and the overall symmetry is appealing, so I went with that. The value changes based on how valuable that particular book is to the buyer and seller. I average those numbers for 37.5 gp/spell level as the average--then apply a random modifier to account for specific value to the individual. Also, even treating spellbooks as quasi-commodities, the spell merchant is going to buy low and sell high. Note that you are likely buying some spells you already know in the book, which is part of the reason you aren't paying 50 gp/level for it. A specifically commissioned book (or one that the seller knows the buyer can get full use out of) probably does cost 50 gp/level.

This pricing scheme also allows both buyer and seller to examine the relative pros and cons of buying a book versus permission to copy a spell. I specifically designed these prices so that there is no uniform overwhelming advantage to either method. The level of the spells, the books available, the inconvenience of the copying to the seller, the value retention of the book even after copied--all of these can go into the decision of whether to buy ala carte or to buy a book with some spells you don't need, as well as which the merchant prefer to sell you.

So, since the wizard can get full use out of this book I made a mistake in my previous price by assuming the average "blind sale" value. Assuming the rogue knows the standard pricing (which the OP isn't assuming), since he knows the wizard has full use for this precise book, the price should be 5,500 gp. (Actually, 5,350 gp, but why not round up?)

Of course, if the wizard can bluff that he has a backup copy, he can bluff that it wouldn't possibly be worth much more than 1,200 gp, since he could make a copy for less than that.

But the real question is why is a wizard able to cast 7th level spells negotiating with a magically ignorant thief?
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Can I ask you to boil it down for me [MENTION=6677017]Sword of Spirit[/MENTION] - what is the end formula you use to arrive at that 4700 gp figure?

37.5 gp per spell level?

8 1st level, 6 2nd level, 4 3rd-6th level, and 2 7th level spells is 8+6x2+4x3+4x4+4x5+4x6+2x7=106 spell levels times 37.5 = 3975 gp.

So it's higher. 37.5 does makes sense - if the scribing cost is 25 gp/level and the "purchasing" (copying) cost is half that.

But obviously I'm missing at least one factor.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
My interest is this:

In an adventure I've placed a spellbook "with every Illusion spell". What can it be sold for on the open market?

Assuming what we're talking about here is the purchase price (when PCs buy stuff), the sell price is half that.

There are 98 Illusion levels in the PHB. If I assume the going rate is 50 gp per level, the actual price the adventurers get in Port Nyanzaru for this book is 50*98/2≈2500 gp which seems too low for such a treasure.

If we double the price of each spell level of 6th or higher level (there's a break in spell slot availability there in 5th edition, and here we transfer this property to spellbooks for the sake of interest) and furthermore raise the purchase price to 75 gp (and therefore the sale price to 37.5 gp) we get 37.5*134≈5000 gp. Much better. Any high level illusionist would gladly pay 10000 gp for such a spellbook, assuming typical wealth distribution according to DMG treasure tables, even if he or she also needs to scribe the spells later.
 

Coroc

Hero
Well if i had this happened in my GHK homebrew with defined costs for most spells (Spellevel^2)*100 (silver in my case but that would be gold in yours)

Let's see 12*100 + 10*400 + 8 *900 + 5* 1600 + 4*2500 + 2*3600 (for 1st to 6th Level spells and my rough guess about how they are distributed ofver the Levels) + 1000 for the book itself = 38600.

The thief could Charge anything between 50% and 150% of this so let us say between 25000 and 55000 is realistic.

How much it will be actually depends on multiple factors: His Need to get the item fenced, his knowledge how valuable the spells are for someone who like to copy it, his knowledge about how direly the wizard will want the book back, his estimation about his chace how he gets away with the crime while profiting w/o being caught.

I hope that helps.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Actually, silver in mine too

Your costs are a tad too high for me, though. I wouldn't be able to place a complete Illusionist spellbook as loot before perhaps level 17, and there it would not feel special (since level 17 adventurers can cast spells of every level)
 

Coroc

Hero
[MENTION=25643]ca[/MENTION]ppnZapp
Well some spells are exemption. The Gnome Illusionist in my running campaign had the opportunity to learn the rain of colorless fire spell, which depending on casting location and other metafactors (artefacts as metamagic enhancer etc.) is epic in devastation amount and area (Think about a lesser apocalypse if all enhancing preconditions are met, no panic the party will never be able to do that on that scale, but they used the spell (from a scroll) in one occasion already to wipe out a contingent of orcs (as well as the surrounding Vegetation and wildlife). The Price they payed was heavy, one of them only was resurrected afterwards by direct Intervention of a god, who was the characters faith, which he adopted shortly before.
A spell of that proportion would not be available for any price. But everything in the PHB is available at the Mage guild in greyhawk (for mages of course) and pricing is done with my formula. That way it makes sense for the Party to earn their bucks or loot them from Mobs.
 

Can I ask you to boil it down for me [MENTION=6677017]Sword of Spirit[/MENTION] - what is the end formula you use to arrive at that 4700 gp figure?


37.5 gp per spell level?


8 1st level, 6 2nd level, 4 3rd-6th level, and 2 7th level spells is 8+6x2+4x3+4x4+4x5+4x6+2x7=106 spell levels times 37.5 = 3975 gp.


So it's higher. 37.5 does makes sense - if the scribing cost is 25 gp/level and the "purchasing" (copying) cost is half that.


But obviously I'm missing at least one factor.


I re-plugged it into my sheet and your numbers are correct.

(My mistake was due to having 1 spell in the box for each level, and I forgot to delete the 8th and 9th level spells, plus the cantrip (because I let wizards scribe and prepare those)--rounded up.)
 

Remove ads

Top