Devices in Arrays

[Rystil Arden]

Since it overrides your normal senses, ESP already has aspects of the Distracting flaw, so it can't be applied.

My only issue with her "Lesser Polylgot" is that, if that's trying to go for a "be understood by as many people as possible with only four languages" thing, then it should have Arabic, English, Mandarin Chinese, and Spanish [or English, Hindustani, Mandarin Chinese and Spanish, depending on who you ask]. If it's just the "she speaks lots of languages" thing, it's cool as-is (though I would ask why it's in amongst her powers, as an Enhanced Skill, rather than being an actual skill). Not knowing the concept behind that power, I don't know which is more appropriate.

I'd also ask what "Mastery of the Mind" (mentioned under her Languages, and which seems to imply some sort of Comprehend effect) is, since it's not listed anywhere under her Powers.

Speaking of "not knowing the concepts behind her stuff," I'd say Circe's lack of background/history/"fluff" text is her biggest impediment to being approved. As is, she's just a block of stats, and a block of stats is not a character. It's fine to not want the PC's to know, but the Judges do need to know this, and it's your responsibility to make sure we have that information, either by e-mailing all the Judges, or just posting it in an sblock in the char post (perhaps with a note saying "Judge's Eyes Only" or somesuch).

I think Mastery of the Mind died a horrible death/became renamed because it became redundant with the new stuff that also has a Comprehend effect. Don't worry about it--the Comprehend should be on the speech Emotion Control now, and I believe it is.

The reason why Lesser Polyglot is in powers is because she doesn't actually speak the languages without the power, and I'm going to build up on it when I get more points until it becomes a total Comprehend, but it makes no sense to do that with real skill points because those represent actually learning the languages (in other words, if I upgraded to full Comprehension by reusing the same points put into the normal language skill, it would be like unlearning the languages, which is weird). Plus, she can use Extra Effort to speak other languages with those and exhaust herself, which just seems cool to me.

The Judges make up half the active PCs in LS that aren't me (at least, from what I've seen anyway). Don't worry--I told Bront the fluff. You can grok the character if you know that her archetype/concept is enchantress/sorceress with a Circe theme (kind of like the Resolute Pandora has a sort of Pandora theme ).

[SBLOCK=Musings on Forcing Public Judge Knowledge of Character Backstories] Sierra is significantly less fun to play if she can't be mysterious. And metagamed ignorance for the sake of consistency is never as fun for anyone as real ignorance (One exchange between Archeville and Sierra was one of my favourites ever in LS, actually, and it stems from the dramatic irony I got from the info D.A. was missing). This is something I do in LEW, actually, and no other judges have had a problem with it--I mean, I have a concept. It's a strongly fluffy one, and I plan on roleplaying it heavily, but I just don't want to tell anyone more than necessary (in LEW, my characters' histories have never been listed to anyone, here I did tell Bront to make sure the background was legit for LS, and it was). I think if you asked people in LEW (particularly in her current adventure) if my character Lasair had a strong personality, backstory, etc, the answer would be a resounding yes.

I guess what I'm saying is--as long as the backstory is allowable, why should anyone need to know it except me, as I slowly reveal it (and in Lasair's case, bits and pieces have been revealed over the OOC years such that it would be possible to determine much of her backstory to a careful reader)?

I'll end with a strong point, since a lot of the above was opinion--Sierra's backstory is a spoiler for Ionian Dreams, which has a judge as a player. It is also a spoiler for my really really cool follow-up to Ionian Dreams that I hope to run if we finish ID. Spoilers to fun plot twists and stories of my adventures are dealbreakers for me--I would rather not run an adventure at all than run an adventure that contained one or more characters whose players have the adventure spoiled[/SBLOCK]

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oh--you're right about ESP. I thought Sierra had Uncanny Dodge tied to a Mystic Danger Sense (which would mean she was not flat-footed on an ESP use), but somehow she does not. I also looked back and saw that Mastery of the Mind was an alt that I replaced, so Sierra has actually only spent 156 of her 157 points!

 

[D.Shaffer]

Characters with Devices within Arrays: Circe; Gun Monkey, Mecha Musume

Not really arguing on the proposal itself...just spot checking myself here. Where did I put in a device in an array for MM? Unless we're talking about Morph-Metamorph?

 

[Hand of Vecna]

I think Mastery of the Mind died a horrible death/became renamed because it became redundant with the new stuff that also has a Comprehend effect. Don't worry about it--the Comprehend should be on the speech Emotion Control now, and I believe it is.

Ah, so it is... but I don't really see how it's at all thematically appropriate for that slot, so, as Character Judge, that does worry me. As I've said elsewhere, though, just because I cannot think of a reason doesn't mean there's not a reason. So, if you can give me a good explanation/reason why Comprehend (all human & animal languages & writings) would fit in with Contagious Continuous Area Hearing-Dependent Emotion Control, Enhanced Charisma, and Enhanced Feats (Fascinate [Diplomacy]), that would be nice.



Re: Circe's background info: While mystery can certainly be fun, and I do agree to an extent with what you say and do see where you're coming from (and, incidentally, I have been thoroughly enjoying the RP between Archeville & Circe, too, even though she drives him crazy), as Character Judge I am one of the people who needs to know her background 'fluff' and history and such. Stats alone are not enough for me to adequately judge a character, and I would never approve a submission that consisted solely of a stat block (or a stat block and a one-sentence summary); I need that info to make sure it and the stats sync up, that the character can "play well" with the other LS characters, and that the character fits into the overall campaign. So I shall be asking Bront for the info.

'Course, I'm just one Judge out of seven, and a new one to boot, so what I say isn't necessarily going to reflect all the other Judge's stands on character approval.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Not really arguing on the proposal itself...just spot checking myself here. Where did I put in a device in an array for MM? Unless we're talking about Morph-Metamorph?

Yup, that'd be it. She's got different Devices in each form.

Though, in a way, Morph/Metamorph isn't really an Array, it's an entirely different/alternate character (an "alternate power" of your entire pp allotment, with the "base effect" being "the 150-pp Character" [well, 150 - the cost of Morph/Metamorph]).

 

[D.Shaffer]

Ah, ok. Now that I got that question out, on to the proposal itself.

I dont like banning anything outright, unless it's absolutely necessary or broken. In most cases, I'd rather the player have to specify exactly what happens in those rare problem cases, or errata the power itself.

As is, if you disallowed the use of other 'slot' powers until the device is back in hand or otherwise recovered, you'd save a lot of the headaches you're trying to forestall, without getting rid of it all together.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ah, so it is... but I don't really see how it's at all thematically appropriate for that slot, so, as Character Judge, that does worry me. As I've said elsewhere, though, just because I cannot think of a reason doesn't mean there's not a reason. So, if you can give me a good explanation/reason why Comprehend (all human & animal languages & writings) would fit in with Contagious Continuous Area Hearing-Dependent Emotion Control, Enhanced Charisma, and Enhanced Feats (Fascinate [Diplomacy]), that would be nice.



Re: Circe's background info: While mystery can certainly be fun, and I do agree to an extent with what you say and do see where you're coming from (and, incidentally, I have been thoroughly enjoying the RP between Archeville & Circe, too, even though she drives him crazy), as Character Judge I am one of the people who needs to know her background 'fluff' and history and such. Stats alone are not enough for me to adequately judge a character, and I would never approve a submission that consisted solely of a stat block (or a stat block and a one-sentence summary); I need that info to make sure it and the stats sync up, that the character can "play well" with the other LS characters, and that the character fits into the overall campaign. So I shall be asking Bront for the info.

'Course, I'm just one Judge out of seven, and a new one to boot, so what I say isn't necessarily going to reflect all the other Judge's stands on character approval.

It's a mastery over sound, hearing, and language--there's an implicit restriction in the flavour text that she can't understand a writing if she has never heard the sound of the language before in her life, but that's not much of the restriction (She's heard most languages that matter that have written forms, and she can eventually hear them all), so I didn't take any points for it (but I know it's there).

Please don't ask Bront for the character history. I can give you a longer character summary without the history, but if my character's history is released without my permission, I am going to be quitting Living Supers--that is an egregious violation of my rights as a player. You can take my rules, you can make my powers illegal and force me to change my concept, and while I may be upset about it, that's your job, and I understand. But if you take my restricted fluff without permission and simultaneously ruin my PL10 character and all of my adventures and planned adventures, I can't forgive that (the doing it over my head is the worst part though--it seems to me like a big-time abuse of judge power). I want to have a secret backstory. It's not a big deal. It's approved too, so it's not like I'm hiding something that wouldn't be approved, I just want it to be secret. H4H was extremely helpful in the initial approval of Sierra without knowing it. Please don't do this.

 

[rgordona]

[sblock]I am not sure I approve of out right banning stuff either, I am far from certain either of these proposals will pass.[/sblock]

Ah, ok. Now that I got that question out, on to the proposal itself.

I dont like banning anything outright, unless it's absolutely necessary or broken. In most cases, I'd rather the player have to specify exactly what happens in those rare problem cases, or errata the power itself.

As is, if you disallowed the use of other 'slot' powers until the device is back in hand or otherwise recovered, you'd save a lot of the headaches you're trying to forestall, without getting rid of it all together.

In a case like Mecha's where the devices only exists when she is in the appropriate form it might make sense to say she can not change form when she does not have it in hand. But that is (as far as I can tell) a house rule, and my problem is I don't think it is appropriate in every case.

I don't think what happens when a device in an array is disarmed is covered in the rules so if they are not banned then what happens has to be negotiated on a case by case basis, which could lead to significant confusion.

[Sblock] I should stop debating the rules and actually play the game. No point having a perfect ruleset if no one is playing.[/sblock]

 

[Hand of Vecna]

It's a mastery over sound, hearing, and language--there's an implicit restriction in the flavour text that she can't understand a writing if she has never heard the sound of the language before in her life, but that's not much of the restriction (She's heard most languages that matter that have written forms, and she can eventually hear them all), so I didn't take any points for it (but I know it's there).

I see nothing about that mentioned in the flavor text. I'd say that's something that should be explicitly listed (even if it doesn't net her back any points), since it means her Comprehend is useless against extraterrestrial languages, and possibly the languages of some otherdimensional critters.

Please don't ask Bront for the character history. I can give you a longer character summary without the history, but if my character's history is released without my permission, I am going to be quitting Living Supers--that is an egregious violation of my rights as a player. You can take my rules, you can make my powers illegal and force me to change my concept, and while I may be upset about it, that's your job, and I understand. But if you take my restricted fluff without permission and simultaneously ruin my PL10 character and all of my adventures and planned adventures, I can't forgive that (the doing it over my head is the worst part though--it seems to me like a big-time abuse of judge power). I want to have a secret backstory. It's not a big deal. It's approved too, so it's not like I'm hiding something that wouldn't be approved, I just want it to be secret. H4H was extremely helpful in the initial approval of Sierra without knowing it. Please don't do this.

Okay, then, let me pose these questions to you: If Circe's in some adventure, and something occurs or is revealed that directly contradicts or invalidates some part of her "secret history," what would you do? (I would assume that the Judge of any adventure Circe's in would be privy to that knowledge, but what if the adventure hinges upon something that winds up contradicting/invalidating something in Circe's mysterious past?)
Or if a player submits and has approved a character who has something in their background that directly contradicts or invalidates some part of Circe's "secret history," or something in Circe's past contradicts or invalidates some part of their background?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I see nothing about that mentioned in the flavor text. I'd say that's something that should be explicitly listed (even if it doesn't net her back any points), since it means her Comprehend is useless against extraterrestrial languages, and possibly the languages of some otherdimensional critters.

It works fine against them if she can hear it first, but since we've banned aliens so far, it shouldn't come up before I pull the Comprehend out of the box and into Lesser Polyglot (which should happen after Trouble in Tokyo--it's one of my next priorities).

Okay, then, let me pose these questions to you: If Circe's in some adventure, and something occurs or is revealed that directly contradicts or invalidates some part of her "secret history," what would you do? (I would assume that the Judge of any adventure Circe's in would be privy to that knowledge, but what if the adventure hinges upon something that winds up contradicting/invalidating something in Circe's mysterious past?)
Or if a player submits and has approved a character who has something in their background that directly contradicts or invalidates some part of Circe's "secret history," or something in Circe's past contradicts or invalidates some part of their background?

That's an interesting and insightful question. I thought of it, actually. I was worried about that too. Thankfully, that can't happen--the fact that my ID adventure was approved means that if they contradict Sierra's backstory, then they've also contradicted my adventure, which should be sufficient to prevent a contradiction in her backstory unless someone was malicious and very careful (i.e. it would have to be on the level of "Let me guess exactly what it is and then directly contradict that"). Anything broader ("There's no such thing as magic!" etc) would by necessity contradict the adventure as well.