Dex-based Two-blade Ranger

[Wannamingo]

I was lately trying to figure a way for elves (and cousin races) to be as effective melee rangers as they are ranged ones. I came up with the following feat:

Sylvan Scout
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Ranger, Two-blade Fighting Style and Eladrin, Elf or Drow.
Benefits: You can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier when making a basic attack or using a ranger power (or ranger paragon path power) with a melee weapon from the heavy blade, light blade or spear groups.

Though I still can't decide if it is really overpowered or not. It was based on the Intelligent Blademaster feat on FRPG (lets Swordmages make basic attacks using Intelligence so Con-based Swordmages don't have to raise their Str). In the end, this lets a two-blade style have an AC 3 points higher (in case of 20 Dex) than other two-blade rangers (considering 14 Dex).

I was thinking of maybe dropping the part where the feat allows basic attacks and letting only ranger melee powers to be used with Dex. Or maybe sticking the weapon groups to light blades and spears only (or even light blades only). Another option is applying a penalty to te damage from attacks made this way.
Edit: Requiring the use of Leather Armor might make sense too, this would lower the defensive bonus.

So you guys let me know what you think about the feat and about the possible solutions I presented, thanks in advance. o/

 

[Starfox]

I did something very similar, but only allowed it with light lades. Mine is also much more open, effectively allowing most classes to be Dex-based instead of using whatever attribute they normally use.


Weapon Finesse

Prerequisite: Dex 13

Benefit: When using a light blade or unarmed attack, you can substitute your Dexterity bonus for your Strength bonus for the hit and effect lines of powers and basic attacks.


I know this is over-the-top, but we like Dexterity builds around here, and the light weapon requirement puts in down by quite a bit. The only real issue is with archery rangers, who suddenly become decent in melee too.

 

[Wannamingo]

Yeah, I also sticked with the Light Blade thing, but also with a Leather Armor requirement since these Dex-only guys were getting their AC 2 points ahead of similar Str builds (assuming Hide Armor) while focusing on only one ability at the cost of one feat, requiring them to wear Leather put their AC only 1 point ahead.

Also, the benefits seemed to even out with the requirements here, since multiple [W] powers (which are very common on Rangers) get less shiny when you wield a light blade.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. o/

 

[Plane Sailing]

Could you explain in more detail what you think the problem is, so I can get a better idea of what you are trying to do?

I only ask because elves seem to make fine str-based rangers as it is. I've created an elf with one of the standard arrays with 16 Str, 14 Wis, 13 Dex before racial benefits, which gives him 16 Str and 16 Wis and 15 Dex right out of the gate.

Works brilliantly as a two weapon ranger. What's not to like?

 

[Sadrik]

It is not just the Ranger that runs into these problems you could try and do this. I changed clerics to run off of CHA to match paladins but this could easily be switched around. CHA just makes more sense to me for divine characters. Basically the idea below is to remove either a secondary stat or a primary stat for those that have two. All to remove MAD.

Cleric
All powers are based off of CHA.
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on WIS.
Paladin
All powers are based off of CHA.
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on STR.
Ranger
All powers are based off of DEX.
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on STR.
Rogue
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on STR.
Warlock
All powers are based off of CHA.
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on CON.
Warlord
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on INT.
Wizard
All powers secondary stat bonuses are based on WIS.

Edit: Actually this is not to completely remove MAD but to remove forced stat placement and make classes a little more open to having different stats lines.

 

[Garthanos]

I did something very similar, but only allowed it with light lades. Mine is also much more open, effectively allowing most classes to be Dex-based instead of using whatever attribute they normally use.


Weapon Finesse

Prerequisite: Dex 13

Benefit: When using a light blade or unarmed attack, you can substitute your Dexterity bonus for your Strength bonus for the hit and effect lines of powers and basic attacks.


I know this is over-the-top, but we like Dexterity builds around here, and the light weapon requirement puts in down by quite a bit. The only real issue is with archery rangers, who suddenly become decent in melee too.

Is it over the top?
Is this going to make those rangers use basic attacks more often? If it makes that dex rangers BA better than their previous heavier weapon At-Wills I would then be bothered.... also it is costing a feat.

 

[Sadrik]

I am going to allow off-handed weapons to be used with DEX or STR. This is sort of the other side of heavy thrown weapons versus light thrown weapons.

 

[Wannamingo]

Could you explain in more detail what you think the problem is, so I can get a better idea of what you are trying to do?

I meant to make it possible for +Dex races to achieve +5 (ability only) to hit on melee combat (using ranger) straight out of the box.

It's just that encounters with my group are usually planned out with the hardest array of enemies possible, making them really hard do hit. We quickly noticed that in this situation, not having a 20 on the ability you use to hit with your powers really is going to make you contribute little to the group in battle, mostly.

 

[77IM]

The problem I see is that it allows Dex-based rangers to be fully effective at both melee and ranged. Under the normal rules, a ranger really needs to pick one or the other, or be mediocre. I think letting them excel at both may be overpowered.

My "swashbuckler" class template (http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/243092-class-templates-kits.html) addressed this issue by causing the character to lose their military ranged weapon proficiency and forbidding them from using projectile weapons with their class powers (only thrown weapons).

-- 77IM