Dice of Chaos for Torchbearer 2e (and now . . . the Deck of Many Things!)

[pemerton]

All the ongoing discussion of the Deck of Many Things prompted me to revisit the Dice of Chaos (from Rolemaster's Creatures and Treasures book) and write them up for Torchbearer 2e:

I'm not sure I actually want to use these, of course - like all these sorts of items they are a little bit broken . . .

 

[pemerton]

I got a bit carried away, and also wrote up the Deck of Many Things - based mostly on the AD&D version (Gygax's DMG, pp 142-43) but also drawing a bit from the 3E DMG and the 5e version that I Googled up on Roll20):

The maths for converting XP gains to Fate and Persona is a bit arcane, but initially I had Sun at 4 Fate and 5 Persona, and Comet at 5 Fate and 8 Persona. The reduction to d4 and d6 seems a bit less outrageous. I also stepped back Moon to balance it a bit more with Fates. Torchbearer handles Flames and Rogues straightforwardly (because Enemy is a status) and also Ruin (because of the Resources ability and the crisp rules for valuables, holdings, deeds of title and the like).

To do my Minor Death, I first statted up the AD&D version:

[indent[Minor Death: AC -4; HD 6+6 (33 hp); AT 1 scythe; D 2d8; SA always strikes first in the round, hits automatically; SD undead immunities, including immunity to cold, fire and electricity; XP 950 + 8/hp[/indent]

Noting that it is somewhat comparable to a troll (6+6 HD, average 20 damage though needing to roll to hit, and regen), I used the Troll Haunt as my starting point, and I reversed the aptr-gangr's slow special ability to reflect the Death's ability to always strike first and unerringly. The resulting Minor Death is not all that minor!

Like the Dice, I'm not sure this is actually usable in a game . . .

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I got a bit carried away, and also wrote up the Deck of Many Things - based mostly on the AD&D version (Gygax's DMG, pp 142-43) but also drawing a bit from the 3E DMG and the 5e version that I Googled up on Roll20):

View attachment 317821
The maths for converting XP gains to Fate and Persona is a bit arcane, but initially I had Sun at 4 Fate and 5 Persona, and Comet at 5 Fate and 8 Persona. The reduction to d4 and d6 seems a bit less outrageous. I also stepped back Moon to balance it a bit more with Fates. Torchbearer handles Flames and Rogues straightforwardly (because Enemy is a status) and also Ruin (because of the Resources ability and the crisp rules for valuables, holdings, deeds of title and the like).

To do my Minor Death, I first statted up the AD&D version:

[indent[Minor Death: AC -4; HD 6+6 (33 hp); AT 1 scythe; D 2d8; SA always strikes first in the round, hits automatically; SD undead immunities, including immunity to cold, fire and electricity; XP 950 + 8/hp[/indent]

Noting that it is somewhat comparable to a troll (6+6 HD, average 20 damage though needing to roll to hit, and regen), I used the Troll Haunt as my starting point, and I reversed the aptr-gangr's slow special ability to reflect the Death's ability to always strike first and unerringly. The resulting Minor Death is not all that minor!

Like the Dice, I'm not sure this is actually usable in a game . . .

Wouldn't a more appropriate way to model something like this (I mean by this more in keeping with TB2) be to just count the entire thing as a contest? Like, have some sort of potential foe present it to you and declare something like "Well, we can fight, OR the party can draw 3 cards!" lol. Then simply have a list of complications and descriptions of condition application that are colored as being various cards. This is interesting because it makes the deck itself a sort of an active participant! Its not just a random bunch of bad news, its OUT TO GET YOU!

 

[pemerton]

Wouldn't a more appropriate way to model something like this (I mean by this more in keeping with TB2) be to just count the entire thing as a contest?

Well, it could be a type of Trick contest against the Deck (or Dice) - Lore Master (for Attack and Defence) and Arcanist (for Feint and Manoeuvre).

You'd need to work out some stakes - like gain Fate, Persona and/or a follower on a success; gain enemies, curses and/or imprisonment as complications.

But then you lose the "diegesis" of rolling some dice or drawing from a deck of cards!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, it could be a type of Trick contest against the Deck (or Dice) - Lore Master (for Attack and Defence) and Arcanist (for Feint and Manoeuvre).

You'd need to work out some stakes - like gain Fate, Persona and/or a follower on a success; gain enemies, curses and/or imprisonment as complications.

But then you lose the "diegesis" of rolling some dice or drawing from a deck of cards!

Well, that last is an interesting point. I think it is still possible to frame it in diegetic terms, but it is probably a lot more work than the D&D approach in this case. Of course we know the old adage about how the easy way isn't always the BEST way...

 

[pemerton]

Well, that last is an interesting point.

Its most interesting feature being that I got to participate in the current diegetic craze!