Diplomacy on PC's

[CyberSpyder]

Even from the standpoint of what a character "should" do, D&D has no way to describe character attitudes about various proposals, nor does it offer any kind of skill to resist Diplomacy. As I noted above, Diplomacy can't compel anyone, not even an NPC, to do a task they find personally objectionable.

Naturally not. Exhorting tasks from people is a rather ticklish thing - at best, it should make the question be one of whether a character would do x thing (in this case, carry an uninjured and capable person) as a personal favor to a good friend.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Lots of good stuff in this thread. I agree with most of what pawsplay and Saeviomagy have been saying.

Another point: The NPC Attitude chart is basically a tool for the DM. It allows a DM to quickly determine how an NPC will react to the PCs on the fly. In order to keep the DM from having to create dozens of complex psych profiles, it simplifies an individual's attitude into five quick and easy categories. Either an NPC is "Helpful" or he's "Unfriendly." Diplomacy adjustments are made, and then the DM determines how the NPC acts, based on his attitude.

But PCs are far more than NPCs. They are as complex as the real people playing them. You cannot simply determine that a PC is "Friendly." A barbarian might be "friendly" towards the party sorceress simply because he wants to get into her pants. Or, he might be "friendly" because she reminds him of his long-dead sister, whom he loved very much.

Now the sorceress bats her eyelashes at the barbarian and charismatically tells him to carry her over a puddle. Well, if the barbarian is really just hot for the sorceress, he'll be eager to do it. He'll become "helpful." But what if it's something else? What if he is suddenly reminded by this vain and selfish request that this sorceress is NOT in fact his sister, who was a selfless and independent woman? The realization is jarring, and makes him angry. He becomes "hostile."

PCs can't be treated by the same shorthand attitude rules as the NPCs, because they are more than the throw-away type NPCs that the attitude rules were meant to serve. They can be spontaneous, contrary, and completely without reason. Only the player knows for sure.

It's for this reason that diplomacy isn't supposed to work on player characters - because this is, in the end, a game.

This is also a very valid point.

 

[Madfox]

Now the sorceress bats her eyelashes at the barbarian and charismatically tells him to carry her over a puddle. Well, if the barbarian is really just hot for the sorceress, he'll be eager to do it. He'll become "helpful." But what if it's something else? What if he is suddenly reminded by this vain and selfish request that this sorceress is NOT in fact his sister, who was a selfless and independent woman? The realization is jarring, and makes him angry. He becomes "hostile."

Part of any act of diplomacy is to guess the motives and emotions of the person with which you are talking. A person with a high diplomacy check might realize in advance whether the barbarian likes the sorcerers because he has a crush on her or for something else. Further then that a person with a high diplomacy skill can also smooth over anything that was unexpactedly insultive.

In the end, I prefer a mix of the two. When running a charismatic NPC or PC with high social skills, I try to role-play it, but I will inform the other players of this fact. If I then do something insultive or act in an irritating way, they tend to ask whether I did it on purpose or not. This gives me the oppertunity to factor charisma and skill into the equation, but at the same time it gives the players all freedom to act as they wish (within limits of course). It is one of the most difficult aspects of the game.

 

[Zimri]

tumble reduces your movement. and you would have to make a tumble check for every threatened zone you moved though.

There is no ability which covers charging through a threatened zone, its just something you do when you want an attack of oppertunity. when you don't want an AoO, you go around or move a shorter distance using tumble.

kahuna burger

ummm

DC 15 tumble up to 20 feet (as PART of normal movement) Suffering no attacks of oppurtunity while doing so Failure means you tumble 20 feet but suffer attacks of oppurtunity normally

DC 25 tumble up to 20 feet (as PART of normal movement) Suffering no attacks of oppurtunity while doing so AND moving through areas occupied by enemies (over, under, or around them) failure means you tumble 20 feet and can move through enemy occupied areas but suffer attacks of opportunity normally.

pretty certain "as part of" means it just takes the 20 feet off your regular movement not takes up all your movement and it also seems to imply that you just make the one tumble check not one for every occupied square.