Diplosmack heaven

[Carpe DM]

So, a player in our game recently discovered diplosmack heaven. The problem with the diplomacy rules has always been that game masters can vary the effects. Tie an effect to a diplomacy build, though, and you create a true work of art.

(1) Take a standard diplomacy-twinked build;

(2) Take the Silver Tongue feat from James Wyatt's update to Oriental Adventures (even DMs who don't usually let Dragon stuff come in ought to permit this -- it is the official 3.5 updating of the Oriental Adventures core book).

(3) Look at the last power granted by Silver Tongue, Dragon 318, pg 38:

"Cause confusion. Make a Diplomacy check opposed by your target's Sense Motive check. If you beat your target's check result by 10 or more, you can cause him to become confused for 1 round. You can use this ability as a full-round action."

This is the single most twinked thing I've ever seen. Confusion! Use it for aggro control! (Confused creatures automatically attack creatures who attack them). Crowd control! (Bye, dragon, go wander!) Or just for fun! INFINITELY. With no saving throw, no level limitation, and infinite times per day.

The guy in our group does this, at third level, with about a +25 diplomacy (he could do better if he had to), and there is a snowball's chance in hell of anyone getting even within 10 of his check with Sense Motive.

I'm in awe.

 

[roushguy]

.
that is one of the funniest things i have ever seen.
intimadate can also confuse opponents under special circumstances. for instance a few days ago, i decided to use my 1st level fighter dragonkin intimidate about 20 lizardfolk. i rolled a nat 20. with +13 to the roll. all of them but about four falied by 20. so instead of making them shaken, i scared them so bad they got confused and started attacking each other. it was hillarious.

 

[Darklone]

I guess this character will quickly develop a reputation of being a troublemaker... and people will NOT let him talk. They'll shoot him before he closes to chat distance

 

[Quidam]

I'm running a charisma-heavy warlock who'll be picking up beguiling influence next level. I'd be curious to hear opinions from DMs who have read the feat on whether they'd allow it before checking it myself and asking my DM about it.

 

[frankthedm]

(2) Take the Silver Tongue feat from James Wyatt's update to Oriental Adventures (even DMs who don't usually let Dragon stuff come in ought to permit this -- it is the official 3.5 updating of the Oriental Adventures core book).

Let me get this staight, in the same post you are trying to show how to break the ability, you are saying a DM should allow it?

 

[frankthedm]

intimadate can also confuse opponents under special circumstances. for instance a few days ago, i decided to use my 1st level fighter dragonkin intimidate about 20 lizardfolk. i rolled a nat 20. with +13 to the roll. all of them but about four falied by 20. so instead of making them shaken, i scared them so bad they got confused and started attacking each other. it was hillarious.

Yes, really special circumstances. You only get to intimidate one person at a time that you threaten. Not to mention the DM making a questionable call on the severity of the effect. I could see frightened, maybe panicked since it was a darn good roll, but confusion was way out of line.

You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.

 

[backbeat]

Where is it writen the failure by 20 on a intimidate check makes the opponent confused? I don't see the logic in that, frightened would make more sense than confused.

 

[Carpe DM]

I'm making no argument whether the feat should or should not be permitted as a matter of game balance. I was merely stating that the Dragon article in question is in a better position to be accepted than the usual twink broken Dragon feat, etc., because it is the official WOTC update of the Oriental Adventures rules. That speaks to the SOURCE of the rule, not its content.

If it were my game, I think the response would be: "I've never rule 0'd anything before, but I'll make an exception for that."

 

[Kelleris]

I'm making no argument whether the feat should or should not be permitted as a matter of game balance. I was merely stating that the Dragon article in question is in a better position to be accepted than the usual twink broken Dragon feat, etc., because it is the official WOTC update of the Oriental Adventures rules. That speaks to the SOURCE of the rule, not its content.

Actually, I myself would be less likely to use this material than if it were generic Dragon stuff, since I'm not playing Oriental Adventures. I doubt I'm alone there.