Disappointment with high-level spells?

[Crothian]

Yeah, in my 26 years of gaming we've needed to do that at least... err... never.

I see, just because it is useless the great and all powerful Piratecat the spell should be seen as worthless to all us little minions!!

That was meant in good humor. The only time it has been used in my campaigns is when the PCs got landed and wanted to know what was in the land they got.

Therefore we don't just need more non combat spells because there aren't enough, the ones they do have no one uses. And I do see that also proven the point of not actually needed more non combative spells.

 

[Piratecat]

Actually, I've seen the spell used in 3e with phenomenal effect. It can be used to find concentrations of powerful unnatural creatures in a HUGE area, and that saves a whole lot of time when trying to find the adventure.

My point, though, was not "this spell is bad because I say so." I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way. It was both "I make teh funny!" and "finding animals to hunt is IMO not an appropriate reason for a 5th level spell."

 

[Crothian]

My point, though, was not "this spell is bad because I say so." I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way. It was both "I make teh funny!" and "finding animals to hunt is IMO not an appropriate reason for a 5th level spell."

I understood, that's why I said in my response it was in good humor. You know one of these days someone will invent a way to properly communicate through this internet thing.

 

[Banshee16]

I'd have to say its even weak for that, particularly as a 9th level spell. Given that firestorm is 2 levels lower, covers a massive area (2 10x10 cubes per level), deals a crapton more damage, and its effects occur the round its cast. If you have the drop on the enemy, its a much better choice.

Storm takes a full round to cast, doesnt do anything until the 2nd round, you have to maintain concentration, and the supposedly useful obscuring effect doesnt even begin until the 5th round in. The spell's area isnt even THAT big. 360' radius. Your average chain shirt wearing pud will be safely out before the hail starts, and definately out before the rain really kicks in, so the vision limit wont even come into play in many situations. If I'm still standing in the area by round 4 or 5, I failed my save vs. idiocy. The useless d6 acid rain damage isnt good for anything except killing a bunch of commoners or squirrels (maybe) and destroying plant life. How druidic. The spell just blows on so many levels (pun intended). If I'm a 17th level druid, a bunch of 1st level warriors arent particularly going to scare me, and even if they did, there are much more effective tools to dispatch them (and lower level to boot) that dont leave me out of casting for several rounds.

But get the party wizard to follow up that Storm of Vengeance with a Quickened Solid fog, and don't thinks start to look a little worse for the victims?

Banshee

 

[Dave Turner]

Almost all spell choices past 6th level for any spellcaster are weak, IMO. Damage spells should just flat out end at 6th level and should just scale properly (Hello, XPH!). From 7th level on, the spells should be jaw-droppers. The old 10th level spells from the Dark Sun Companion come to mind: raise a fortress from the earth with a single spell and that sort of thing. Make 9th level spells that are epic and ditch the entire Epic progression.

 

[Quartz]

I don't see the problem with Storm of Vengeance. It's not a spell to be used in immediate combat; it's a spell you fly somewhere high and cast to rain destruction on a town.

 

[Hussar]

The problem being, with Storm of Vengeance, it's such a massively high level spell that can be done better at lower levels. As was mentioned, fire storm works MUCH better for strategic bombing. Even much lower level spells like Wall of Fire cover a very large area, are shapable, and every bit as effective for destroying towns. And, as an added bonus, you can cast more than a few Wall of Fire spells by the time you get Storm of Vengeance.

But, I do agree with Crothian that there needs to be a LOT more utility spells rather than combat ones.

 

[Klaus]

What about Shadow Landscape (Complete Divine)? 9th-level Druid spell that borrows shadowstuff from the Plane of Shadow to exacerbate the characteristics of a regular landscape (for instance, a forest becomes akin to the haunted forests of children's tales).

 

[pawsplay]

I would consider Storm of Vengenace a bit of a "diplomacy" spell, too. And if nothing else, it can make any number of casters save vs. Fortitude or be deafened, never an effect to sneer at.

Antipathy could be very useful. Cast it on an an arrow, fire it a group of guards, wait. Or use it cause individuals to evacuate a throne room. Or use it to repel CE or LE individuals as a way of screening out a crowd.

Another useful thing to do with level 9 slots is really sick uses of metamagic.

 

[Merifluous]

I think you are expecting too much from 9th level druid spells. A druid has a LOT of tricks - spells are just part of the arsenal (wild shape in particular) and from a spell casting point of view summoning is their stick, and it should be noted that in general summon spells rock at all levels, even if they really aren't some new or crazy effect.

Now, compare to an arcane caster, where their trick really is just their spells. Since all they can really do is cast spells, they should be the best in the game and have a outrageuous impact when they come into play, which they do. That's why arcane spells are awesome at 9th level and do crazy things and druid spells are relatively so-so (IMHO).