disarm opponent w/ ranged weapon?

[SJ]

in reading p. 152 in the modern book, an attempt can be made to disarm an opponent who has a ranged weapon. The disarm attack is made against the weapon itself (ala DC 7), and the opponent can possibly get an AoO (ala DC 14 or whatever the disarmER has) to prevent the disarmer from taking his weapon.

This doesn't seem right. Someone rolls a melee 7 vs. another melee 14 to take the weapon? If the disarmer has improved disarm for a feat it's pretty much AUTOMATIC that you're gonna get disarmed.

What do I have wrong here?

 

[takyris]

Actually, when you try to disarm someone with a ranged weapon, the rules are a bit more complex. I can't tell from your post whether you've got it or not, so forgive me if I'm explaining the obvious.

To make a disarm against a ranged weapon, you treat it as an attack on a held object.

Now, one major factor to bear in mind is that the size of a WEAPON is not the same as the size of an OBJECT. WEAPON size only means "how many hands it takes to use it, and whether it's considered light for you". OBJECT size is the factor that actually matters in terms of striking an object. A handgun might be small or medium-sized in terms of WEAPON size, but in terms of OBJECT size, it's Tiny or Diminutive at best (ranging in size from a Laptop Computer at the upper end to a Paperback Book at the lower end). In terms of Defense, that means that its base Defense is 7 or 9. Let's say 7, for a good-sized handgun.

To that 7, you add 5 (from page 150), as well as the gun-holder's class bonus and Dexterity bonus. Dodge bonuses are not mentioned, and equipment bonuses don't make sense. You MIGHT add Dodge bonuses anyways, as they seem to stack on top of Dexterity bonuses -- when you get one, you get the other. In any event, the gun has a defense of at least 12. A gun held by a first-level Fast Hero with a Dex of 15 woulud have a defense of 7+5+3+2 = 17.

I don't consider that any easy attack, especially given that you provoke an AoO while doing so.

-Tacky

 

[SJ]

thanks, Tacky, that helps. The key is the paragraph at the top of 150 that I conveniently overlooked. "object held has a Defense equal to the above + 5 + Dex + class bonus"

How I missed that, I don't know.

It still seems to be close to a toss-up (defense 17 vs. defense 15) for two 1st lvl fast heroes, but it beats the other (ie wrong) way I had interpreted before.