Discussion of DMG page 42

[timbannock]

Agree with that. The cards I create are usually a little more descriptive rather than "gamey," but I also base it on how I feel and what the Players seem to be into at the time. Sometimes we game for story; in that case, I write something like "Knocking over the stack of wine kegs shouldn't be too hard, and will send heavy barrels toppling down on anyone nearby, potentially crushing them, and definitely knocking them off balance."

If we're more in a "let's kill stuff" mode, I'd write the same situation as "Toppling over the wine kegs is an Easy Strength check and would affect a 10' x 10' area adjacent to the stack, dealing some crushing damage and potentially knocking the targets prone."

I don't give specific damages and DCs to the players, but enough info so that if I forget my notes or something, I can just reference the DMG's magical page 42 and probably get the info close if not spot on.

No trick I employ is totally for the players' benefit alone ;-P

 

[Chaldfont]

Another trick is to add Encounter Powers to the actual encounter that anyone can use (including the bad guys). If you have time to prepare, you can toss it out on an index card and let everyone know that anyone can use it but once it's used, the card comes off the table.

A logical next step is to allow players to create these cards (which reduces the DM workload) by making a declaration skill check as in Spirit of the Century and maybe spending some resource like an Action Point or a Healing Surge.

Once you have a nice deck of these going it might be fun to just draw random ones out and work them into the encounter.

 

[darjr]

Some really, REALLY great ideas in this thread. I LOVE the idea of specific event or environment 'powers', especially the one that anybody could do, once. Very cool stuff. Very good advice on the cards for players who have their nose buried in their cards, I've had one of those.

Anyway, back to the page 42 example.

The circumstances where this becomes a no brainer are:
The rogue still has combat advantage vs the ogre. Has an action point to spend. Realizes that running around and down the stairs would mean the ogre gets to act, thus losing her combat advantage. Climbing down would grant every one combat advantage against her.

So swinging down the chandelier the rogue would still have combat advantage before the ogre acts and AFTER the kick into the fires get her sneak attack with a spent action point. Deft strike would be ideal right about now.

If the pushing fort check fails she would still have her sneak attack also she could use a power now that didn't have movement built in.

I've had a rogue player or two that are looking for similar situations and would get evil little grins as realization dawned.

I'm not sure at this point with any other classes or circumstances, but I'm sure my players could surprise me.

 

[Felon]

Okay, I have seen page 42 highlighted as the holy grail of improvising actions in 4e...now granted, it does give guidelines for damage and basically what amounts to skill checks for actions...but I fail to see how this helps one to improvise status conditions or movement effects. I am also missing why any player in their right mind would choose to do any of these improvised actions vs. using their powers...D&D is a tactical game and it doesn't make sense to try something like this...if it is less effective than one's powers....Let's take the example given in the book, but reduce level to 1 for a simpler example and replace the Ogre with a Bugbear Warrior.

Everything you said is well-put and echoes my sentiments. The rules provide expressions for inflicting damage but not for adding rider effects like the push, even though the very example they use is mored concerned with the push than the damage.

It's kind of a trap. If the benefit isn't very good, then it's not worth doing in the first place. If it is good, then you'll see one character after another trying their hand at the chandalier, cheapending the coolness of the initial improvisation.

Maybe there should be a risk attached to failure. A character could certainly suffer a mishap swinging from a chandelier.

 

[LostSoul]

Maybe there should be a risk attached to failure. A character could certainly suffer a mishap swinging from a chandelier.

Falling Prone is a good one.

 

[El Mahdi]

Just to touch on this for a moment, I have heard many GM's express that the players can tend to "bury their nose in the power cards" and this makes the actions taken in combat repetitive (see also: 30 different threads about "grind"). This is kind of the "When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" situation. I could imagine it becoming an issue with my group. I'm going to try to use the "bury their nose in the cards" to my advantage.

Two cards that I'm going to make sure are included in the set the players use are:

Use A Skill - I haven't decided yet but I'm considering putting the page 42 ranges for DC and damage output on this card, with the clear understanding that I'll throw those out in a heartbeat if I think it should be adjudicated differntly.

Do Something Awesome - I've got a house rule that lets a player spend an Action Point AND a Healing Surge to "break the rules in a way that fits with your character". Basically this lets them use "powers" that fit the theme of their character without being absolutely bound by the normal set of powers they've got.

For example, if there is a big, burly Dragonborn Fighter and he wants to "punch this guy so hard that he breaks through the thin wall of this rickety tavern and lands on his butt in the street" then he need only spend the AP and Healing Surge and he is free to make the attempt. I'll tend to vary the AC/DC (HA!) that the PC must hit by how far above or below the general power level of their abilities this stunt is.

I'm hoping that cards like these will serve as a reminder that there is more they can do than just what their powers dictate.

This, as well as the posts about not making it so codified on the cards, is just pure awesome. I've had Action Points in my D&D games for the past five years, but getting players to actually use them always seems to be a challenge. Along with the above, I'll make one for "Use an Action Point" or somesuch. I'm totally stealing this.