(Discussion) Red Wizards and Paladins Code of Ethics Issue

[Mithreander]

These are some pulled posts from a debate that occured in one of the starting adventures. It brings to the surface some issues, and I think that the content should quickly be ran over and decided upon.

-creamsteak



OoC:*Stops looking for his players handbook* Damn! I forgot about that discription in the players handbook! I've played by my houserules (Being a paladin does not make him less of a person. It makes him more of one. He has more tools to make judgements on the purity of people, and with that insight, tends to be better prepared then others when facing adversity. But without an action, they can NOT judge an evil person. I have NPCs who are evil, but do more good then their counterparts. Why? They are fighting their nature, and in their fight, tend to do more good then those that are just naturally good.) for so long, that I forget about the shortsightedness of WotC's publications. I am going to make a call for THIS adventure, because it's my place to do so. A paladin MUST have a code of honor, but it does not have to be the same as that in the players handbook. With that in mind I would change the code that a paladin cannot travel with anyone evil, to a paladin can not travel with a person that practices evil. Note: This rendition of the rules is for this adventure only. The paladin's god or lord really wants him to help the people of Fallon.

 

[Lichtenhart]

[OOC: Well the Red Wizards are now an official PrC that is in the SRD so we can have them. We can't have Thay though. Janos, if possible try to make their land quite different from FR Thay.

OOC: No I was wrong. They are in the DMG but not in the SRD. So we can't have them. Well we can have all sorts of slaver wizards, only you can't call them 'Red Wizards'. I suggest we edit it out to a new name.

 

[Creamsteak]

Obviously, there can be no "Red Wizards of Thay" in this game. That's a given, no question. The words "Red Wizard" are pretty general, and when I see them, I don't necessarily think of the Realms Prestige Class.

I'm fine with leaving their class in the setting, however, setting up a heritage for such a prestige class would have to be dealt with by some creative individuals that have an interest in seeing Living Enworld do well. Really, I'd rather we created our own prestige classes.

So, I need some comments from a couple people to re-affirm my opinion one way or the other.

 

[Lichtenhart]

OoC: Thebis-Ra, please note the we are NOT in a world with the red wizards of they. Keep your background, but do the rest of us a favor and create a simular, but unique group that could exist in this world. ENWorld is rather new and needs help in these areas. Thanks!

[OOC: We *are* in a world with Red Wizards, since I was allowed to DM an adventure with 2 of them. One of them is currently in the Red Dragon Inn.]

[OoC: If that's the case, then could you please inform us where They is? I find it unrealistic that they would be in this world and find that the ENWorld judge made a mistake. But I'm not them, so... have you added an entry HERE or anyone else for these geographically challenged wizards?]

[Does it even matter where Thay is? It doesn't affect your adventure, merely my background. It isn't in walking distance. Janos Teleported here, Thebis travelled several years before he got here.]

[OoC:Not to me, I happen to work in a copy-right enfrigement office (though very indirectly), and if ENWorld were to try to publish anything from the developement of this world, they would not be able to do so with the Wizards of They there. It violates the publication rights of WotC that now own the Forgotten Realms setting. I was just looking out for possible problems in the future, that's all. Nothing personal.]

[OOC: Well the Red Wizards are now an official PrC that is in the SRD so we can have them. We can't have Thay though. Janos, if possible try to make their land quite different from FR Thay.]

OOC: No I was wrong. They are in the DMG but not in the SRD. So we can't have them. Well we can have all sorts of slaver wizards, only you can't call them 'Red Wizards'. I suggest we edit it out to a new name.

This is how the discussion went. I too would like LEW to be as original as it can get, but we cannot force Janos to change his background and adventure. A compromise is in order.
I think in the future we'd better let the judges discuss these things before someone working on them and introducing them in the game.

CS, can you please put Mithreander's second post back in Fallon's thread, or at least the in game part of it?

 

[Mithreander]

I'd like to add that I read the 3.0 players handbook discription of a paladin and found it to say that a paladin can not travel with an evil individual for an extended period of time. THis is paraphrased, since I don't have the book infront of me. I doubt that they have changed the discription of a paladin much from 3.0 to 3.5, but if I'm wrong, could someone please inform me. Thanks!

 

[Uriel]

The whole issue of the Red Wizards, a Faerun derived PrClass, but an 'official' one (Gee, thanks for this grey area, WotC) shouldn't be that big a deal.
Janos merely needs to change the name of the Wizards to something original, which allows for creativity on his part. He gets to create a cabal of Evil Mages, not just lift them from Faerun. I don't see any real arguments on his part as being needed or forthcoming regarding this.
He knows that we are trying to create an Original setting, free of other Setting-based material. I'm sure that he will cooperative (once more, he gets to create an entire Evil Wizards Cabal).

 

[Snipehunt]

CS, I agree about the name "red wizard," it seems pretty generic, but the "Thay" has to stay out, and the Red Wizard prestige class isn't OGL (AFAIK-it's not in the SRD). I don't think we should let people use anything resembling the FR background, etc.

I'd rather have our own prestige classes, too. But the DMG prestige classes are pretty universal - I can't imagine not having arcane tricksters, shadowdancers, etc. My 2 cp's: keep the SRD PrC's (which doesn't include Red Wizard).

Maybe add some Living Enworld flava - i.e., Loremasters can study at the Arcane College of X, Duellists can train at the L'Avandian Fencing Academy, Eldritch Knights are supported by the Grey Elves of Whatever, and so on.

 

[Uriel]

I do hope we are using the PrClasses from the DMG, as well as a few from other sources.

I had already set up Eldritc Knights, Theurges and Horizon Walkers in Rivenblight (where there are a lot of Grey Elves, oddly enough Snipehunt).

I agree on making our own, though.

 

[Mithreander]

I had assumed that the only prestige classes to be used were from the SRD, thus:

1. Arcane Archer
2. Arcane Trickster
3. Archmage
4. Assassin
5. Blackguard
6. Dragon Disciple
7. Duelist
8. Dwarven Defender
9. Eldritch Knight
10. Hierophant
11. Horizon Walker
12. Loremaster
13. Mystic Theurge
14. Shadowdancer
15. Thaumaturgist

This is the list that I was presuming we were using as well (was I wrong?) and should we post this someplace for those that do not know there is a difference between the material in the corebooks and the SRD?. As for prestige classes made by us... that's another nut to crack open!

 

[Creamsteak]

[Watch it please, if you have a post not specifically related to this thread topic, at least be kind enough to either put it in general discussion, or if it's much larger, give it a new thread. I just split off some posts from this thread.]