Divided gaming group - looking for help.

[Wulfgar76]

Greetings,

After a 10 year hiatus, circumstances have allowed my old gaming group to get back together, with the addition of my 10 year old son.

The problem is that two of the players have switched to 4th Edition and are adamant in its superiority over 3.5/Pathfinder. The other two players are 3.5/Pathfinder players who are conversely quite critical of 4th.

So the decision now falls to me, the DM, to choose a system, and I really need more info.

I've learned that this is an acrimonious ongoing debate ("Edition Wars") and I absolutely DO NOT want to discuss the merits/weaknesses of the two systems here - which I believe is against the board rules.

What I am a looking for is a balanced, rational, well-considered online discussion or article summarizing the pros and cons of each system/edition.

Is there a link someone can provide me so I can do my own research and make an informed decision?

Thank you.

 

[rogueattorney]

Is there a third option that would make everyone content? If you can't agree which version of D&D to play, but everyone likes Star Frontiers or Tunnels & Trolls or whatever, why not just play that?

Lacking a mutually agreeable third option, the DM should pick. And I think the DM should pick based on what he/she feels most comfortably that he/she can deliver the funner/better game for whatever reason. That doesn't have to be a value judgment on which game is better -- it could simply be that the DM is more familiar with one version, has more available resources for that version, or feels that the particular scenario being run fits that version a bit better.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Option C - neither game. Run something completely different, be it World of Darkness, Call of Cthulhu, or GURPS.

The two sides will never agree. One side or the other will be unhappy.

The Auld Grump

 

[MichaelSomething]

Sadly, I can't think of a truly neutral review of both systems as most people already have a favorite system and are biased for/against something before they review it...
Hopefully it's because I'm currently sick and would be able to find something if I was feeling better.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I would also suggest looking into "third options". Trailblazer and Fantasycraft are prominent examples that use 3e architecture but very non-3e concepts that have some chance to unite the players.

What I am a looking for is a balanced, rational, well-considered online discussion or article summarizing the pros and cons of each system/edition.

Is there a link someone can provide me so I can do my own research and make an informed decision?

If there is such a thing I have never seen it. There are a million discussions, but there is also a great deal of profound disagreement on the topic. You can of course just google around and collate an opinion from a variety of sources.

***

If you end up having to choose, just go to a bookstore, pick up a book (then pick up the other system's book), and look at it. Page through it. I doubt you'll go wrong by trusting your first instinct. If you can't find an option that everybody will agree on, that that's life.

In truth, it's no different than having a split on any number of other issues. Hopefully you can work through it.

 

[frankthedm]

Retroclone or 1E if you have the books.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

I've learned that this is an acrimonious ongoing debate ("Edition Wars") and I absolutely DO NOT want to discuss the merits/weaknesses of the two systems here - which I believe is against the board rules.

LOL. Half this board's posts wouldn't be here if this was the case.

I'm a 4ron. I think it's much easier to prepare and run than any 3.x flavor of D&D could possibly be.

I fully recognize and acknowledge the many shortcomings of D&D 4e, but accept them for the fact that I can prep a 4 hour session in less than 2 hours.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I would also suggest looking into "third options". Trailblazer and Fantasycraft are prominent examples that use 3e architecture but very non-3e concepts that have some chance to unite the players.

If there is such a thing I have never seen it. There are a million discussions, but there is also a great deal of profound disagreement on the topic. You can of course just google around and collate an opinion from a variety of sources.

***

If you end up having to choose, just go to a bookstore, pick up a book (then pick up the other system's book), and look at it. Page through it. I doubt you'll go wrong by trusting your first instinct. If you can't find an option that everybody will agree on, that that's life.

In truth, it's no different than having a split on any number of other issues. Hopefully you can work through it.

It may be worth mentioning that the PDF for FantasyCraft is currently on sale at RPGNow for $12.

The Auld Grump

 

[Crothian]

Go Vampire the Masquerade. If you are going to be superior and condescending about other games then go with the game that reads that way more then any other game I can think of.

 

[Dragonblade]

I think you can use house rules to bridge the gap, depending on what your player's like or dislike about each system.

My group plays both and its a balancing act. For example, for the 4e guys, failing a save and being stuck watching your friends play without you for multiple rounds is an absolute deal breaker and one of the the most despised and frustrating aspects of playing PF.

So when we play PF, our DM goes out of his way to minimize the duration such effects or provide story reasons for giving a player another save to shake it off. One guy was petrified in our last battle, so the DM conveniently had us recover a wand of stone to flesh with 2 charges left on the bodies of the enemies we killed.

And in PF, we adopted the 4e movement rule of counting every square as 1, instead of double counting diagonals since everyone agreed that was easier and preferable.

It doesn't always work out, but its enough that all of my players are open and flexible and when we are done with PF, we'll switch over to 4e, and then in the future back to PF again probably.

On the 4e side, its a little bit easier. Our PF fans actually like 4e combat and generally prefer it to PF combat. Their main issue with 4e is that 4e characters just don't feel as flexible from a RP perspective. So we added a house rule for encounter power recovery to make it feel less gamist, free multi-classing feats in lieu of a background for story reasons, etc.

Also when DMing 4e, I use the inherent bonus rule and custom make the magic items that my players find. It helps make them feel more magical and rare. Generally, we are able to keep everyone satisfied.