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D&D 5E DM Advice: How do you handle a TPK?
- Thread starter Queer Venger
- Start date
JamesonCourage
Adventurer
"Huh."
That's my reaction, as it has taken me by surprise both times it's happened. (I've had a few other party wipes, but only two where everyone died.)
(1) The first time, the PCs decided to break into a well-guarded moneylender's house and murder him in his sleep (he was a nemesis for a couple PCs). They killed his guards (and guard dog), but he single-handedly killed the rest. He rolled really well, and was tough in his own right, but he ended up killing everyone. After the shock wore off, the players made new PCs on a different continent (in the same campaign world) and we picked up that campaign. (I think they ended up being warlords of a small area in that campaign.)
(2) The second TPK was very recent in my 4e campaign. Since I write it up every session in a thread in the "Old D&D Editions" forum, I'll just copy-paste it for you:[sblock]So, the PCs had gone through a lot. They'd faced a mind flayer and two thralls (and had a short rest), then faced twisted far realms creatures and used their daily healing spells (and had a short rest), and then gone to close the rifts to the Far Realm on a 12/3 skill challenge, but the Warpriest had to use his Medallion of Death Deferred to bring himself back up and then used both encounter heals on himself. So, they had beaten the skill challenge, but it had been tough on them, and now a new challenge appeared as the rifts closed: three twisted copies of the Knight appeared, two copies of the Scout, and one copy of the Elementalist.
We began by starting with the combat. They had no time for a short rest, had a small number of surges left (anywhere from 2 to 4 each), and had no encounter healing. It was a brutal combat, with the twisted versions of the Knight really tearing the PCs up. They managed to drop a copy of the Scout early on, but after that they were mostly on the defensive. The PCs went defensive, desperately trying to bring up any PC that dropped by any method they had: potions, Heal checks, the Elementalist using her Bard's daily heal. The Elementalist was trying to give out Temp HP with her basic attacks, the Knight used a daily to give everyone 14 THP at one point, and the Warpriest gave everyone 5 THP at one point. The Elementalist even used a couple of cold dailies from her theme to help make some difficult terrain and block off one side. They really pulled out everything they had against the copies. The Warpriest's feat to give +5 to death saves to his allies brought two of them back up, and saves some of them from getting death strikes.
It wasn't enough. I crit three times in the fight, and I killed the Warpriest. Without his feat, the PCs started wracking up death strikes. The Elementalist died next, followed by the Scout. The Knight was alone against five opponents, and while two were bloodied, he went down and was beaten to death. Total party kill.
Ouch, right?
After this had happened, the players were a little in shock. Before I let any discussion of what to do next kick in, I told the Knight that he was waking up. Another wave of shock took the players at that, but they went with it (none of them wanted it to end here, I could tell). He woke up next to his dead comrades (the copies were nowhere in sight), and he had a near-overwhelming need to consume blood.
See, the Knight PC had been infected with vampirism. Though the Warpriest had plans to heal it after their next extended rest, he'd never had the chance. The Knight rose again as a vampire (I had his stats for him as a Vampire class; he was happy about the regeneration to just above bloodied, but not happy about the loss of defenses and HP). He decided that he had enough control as a newly-risen vampire to collect his fallen comrades and drag them back to the dwarven city (he made a Hard Dungeoneering check to get back, so he made great time). I rolled to see if anything interfered, and something happened. At one point along the way, a thought entered his mind from what he assumed was the Mind Flayer he had worked with: "We have succeeded in stopping reality from reasserting itself." The Knight -er, Vampire kept going without replying, and he heard "I have no need to harvest any more dwarves." The dwarf was happy about that, and I let the PCs know that their major quest, which had been "stop the Mind Flayers" was complete, giving everyone enough XP to level up... Yay, right?
Anyway, the dwarf made it back to the city, where he was stopped by a patrol outside. Still inside his plate armor (The Invulnerable Coat of Arnd hadn't left him), they didn't know he was undead. They asked him if he wanted help bringing his fallen comrades in, but he said he wanted the honor of taking them in himself, and said he needed someone to help raise them. They nodded and let him in, with one leading him to the temple of Moradin in the city. All along the way, dwarves stopped to solemnly watch this adventuring dwarf, newly of Kord Clan, drag his dead companions to the temple. Once reaching the temple, he began to walk up, but he was hit for 10 radiant damage (I rolled) when he tried to enter the sacred ground.
He backed up a step, and all the dwarves tensed, with many drawing weapons. The Vampire explained that he was a vampire now, but that he wanted to see his friends raised, and that the Warpriest, if raised, could reverse the condition (he was mistaken, but he really thought as much). The dwarf that was leading him went inside to speak with the high priest of Moradin. When he returned, he said that the high priest said that no such reversal was possible from the Warpriest's magic. He told the Vampire that he would need to be disarmed, and when the dwarf started to put his weapons on the ground, the soldier approached and asked the Vampire to hand the weapons over (since that was more honorable). He asked if the Vampire wished to be put down. The player decided that he still had enough honor this early on to say that yes, he wanted to get put down. He asked to speak to Gortha, the Kord Clan ambassador. She arrived, and they spoke of the best way to do so. According to Gortha, Kord respected Moradin, so the Vampire could step onto the holy ground and let it take him if he wished. However, Kord preferred his followers die as warriors, so perhaps dying to a weapon of war would be better. The dwarf opted for the latter, and removed his helmet. He laid on the ground, and Gortha took her lightning craghammer to his head, killing him.
Another moment of unsure shifts from the players, and I told them that the Warpriest woke up. He was on some sort of altar, and Gortha was standing over him. The other dead party members were also on nearby altars. The Warpriest spoke with Gortha about raising the others. Apparently Gortha couldn't do it again today, and by tomorrow too much time would pass. The Warpriest could raise one, and the high priest of Moradin could raise one, and had agreed to raise one of the Warpriest's choosing. The Warpriest immediately chose to bring "his brother" back, and moved to the Knight's corpse. He asked the high priest to raise the Scout after some debate, since he had been here longer, and since the Elementalist had previously warned that she might be called away at any moment.
The high priest was ready to raise the Scout, and told the Warpriest that perhaps he could speak with The Raven Queen about putting a stay on the Elementalist's soul passing on. Gortha was a cleric of Kord, and he was a priest of Moradin, so neither had much chance of pulling such a feat off. The Warpriest prayed for it while waiting for his extended rest (necessary for his resurrection spell), and rolled a Moderate Religion check. He knew that The Raven Queen had agreed to his request, but he also knew she was angry about something, and that there was a catch, but he wasn't sure what it was yet. The Scout and Knight were raised (and the Knight was no longer a Vampire), and were moved to private temple housing for now. After staying for another 24 hours in the room, the Warpriest raised the Elementalist as well.
The PCs planned on resting at least three days to recover (to get rid of the resurrection sickness of -1 on attacks, skills, saves, and attribute checks). The catch with the Elementalist, however, was that her -1s were going to stay until she had achieved three milestones. It was The Raven Queen's way of taking out her anger for the Warpriest. The Warpriest spent the next two days alone, feeling guilty about failing his friends and his goddess, and meditating on why she was angry. A Hard Religion check later, and he knew that she was angry that he had died (she'd raised him once before as part of his Background), and angry that he'd let those marked to live (the party members) be killed. She was also upset that the Warpriest had used a gift of Vecna (the Medallion of Death Deferred) and still died; she didn't mind that he used it, but if he was going to use such a tainted item, he'd better live and carry on her will.[/sblock]
Anyway, both TPKs went fine for my group. We weren't sure how we felt about the first one (it was the first TPK after years and years of play with our group), but in the end, we liked it. I mean, it ended a fairly enjoyable campaign, but at the same time, everyone knows that we're playing for keeps, and it makes the victories feel that much more earned. Not every player or group values that, but my players seem to (and I value it), so it was actually a positive experience in the long run.
(Also, I technically had another TPK in my 4e campaign, but that was orchestrated by me as a transition to lose one PC and bring in a new PC, and they were 'raised' by the death knight that had killed them [they were only level 4]. So I don't count it as a real TPK.)
That's my reaction, as it has taken me by surprise both times it's happened. (I've had a few other party wipes, but only two where everyone died.)
(1) The first time, the PCs decided to break into a well-guarded moneylender's house and murder him in his sleep (he was a nemesis for a couple PCs). They killed his guards (and guard dog), but he single-handedly killed the rest. He rolled really well, and was tough in his own right, but he ended up killing everyone. After the shock wore off, the players made new PCs on a different continent (in the same campaign world) and we picked up that campaign. (I think they ended up being warlords of a small area in that campaign.)
(2) The second TPK was very recent in my 4e campaign. Since I write it up every session in a thread in the "Old D&D Editions" forum, I'll just copy-paste it for you:[sblock]So, the PCs had gone through a lot. They'd faced a mind flayer and two thralls (and had a short rest), then faced twisted far realms creatures and used their daily healing spells (and had a short rest), and then gone to close the rifts to the Far Realm on a 12/3 skill challenge, but the Warpriest had to use his Medallion of Death Deferred to bring himself back up and then used both encounter heals on himself. So, they had beaten the skill challenge, but it had been tough on them, and now a new challenge appeared as the rifts closed: three twisted copies of the Knight appeared, two copies of the Scout, and one copy of the Elementalist.
We began by starting with the combat. They had no time for a short rest, had a small number of surges left (anywhere from 2 to 4 each), and had no encounter healing. It was a brutal combat, with the twisted versions of the Knight really tearing the PCs up. They managed to drop a copy of the Scout early on, but after that they were mostly on the defensive. The PCs went defensive, desperately trying to bring up any PC that dropped by any method they had: potions, Heal checks, the Elementalist using her Bard's daily heal. The Elementalist was trying to give out Temp HP with her basic attacks, the Knight used a daily to give everyone 14 THP at one point, and the Warpriest gave everyone 5 THP at one point. The Elementalist even used a couple of cold dailies from her theme to help make some difficult terrain and block off one side. They really pulled out everything they had against the copies. The Warpriest's feat to give +5 to death saves to his allies brought two of them back up, and saves some of them from getting death strikes.
It wasn't enough. I crit three times in the fight, and I killed the Warpriest. Without his feat, the PCs started wracking up death strikes. The Elementalist died next, followed by the Scout. The Knight was alone against five opponents, and while two were bloodied, he went down and was beaten to death. Total party kill.
Ouch, right?
After this had happened, the players were a little in shock. Before I let any discussion of what to do next kick in, I told the Knight that he was waking up. Another wave of shock took the players at that, but they went with it (none of them wanted it to end here, I could tell). He woke up next to his dead comrades (the copies were nowhere in sight), and he had a near-overwhelming need to consume blood.
See, the Knight PC had been infected with vampirism. Though the Warpriest had plans to heal it after their next extended rest, he'd never had the chance. The Knight rose again as a vampire (I had his stats for him as a Vampire class; he was happy about the regeneration to just above bloodied, but not happy about the loss of defenses and HP). He decided that he had enough control as a newly-risen vampire to collect his fallen comrades and drag them back to the dwarven city (he made a Hard Dungeoneering check to get back, so he made great time). I rolled to see if anything interfered, and something happened. At one point along the way, a thought entered his mind from what he assumed was the Mind Flayer he had worked with: "We have succeeded in stopping reality from reasserting itself." The Knight -er, Vampire kept going without replying, and he heard "I have no need to harvest any more dwarves." The dwarf was happy about that, and I let the PCs know that their major quest, which had been "stop the Mind Flayers" was complete, giving everyone enough XP to level up... Yay, right?
Anyway, the dwarf made it back to the city, where he was stopped by a patrol outside. Still inside his plate armor (The Invulnerable Coat of Arnd hadn't left him), they didn't know he was undead. They asked him if he wanted help bringing his fallen comrades in, but he said he wanted the honor of taking them in himself, and said he needed someone to help raise them. They nodded and let him in, with one leading him to the temple of Moradin in the city. All along the way, dwarves stopped to solemnly watch this adventuring dwarf, newly of Kord Clan, drag his dead companions to the temple. Once reaching the temple, he began to walk up, but he was hit for 10 radiant damage (I rolled) when he tried to enter the sacred ground.
He backed up a step, and all the dwarves tensed, with many drawing weapons. The Vampire explained that he was a vampire now, but that he wanted to see his friends raised, and that the Warpriest, if raised, could reverse the condition (he was mistaken, but he really thought as much). The dwarf that was leading him went inside to speak with the high priest of Moradin. When he returned, he said that the high priest said that no such reversal was possible from the Warpriest's magic. He told the Vampire that he would need to be disarmed, and when the dwarf started to put his weapons on the ground, the soldier approached and asked the Vampire to hand the weapons over (since that was more honorable). He asked if the Vampire wished to be put down. The player decided that he still had enough honor this early on to say that yes, he wanted to get put down. He asked to speak to Gortha, the Kord Clan ambassador. She arrived, and they spoke of the best way to do so. According to Gortha, Kord respected Moradin, so the Vampire could step onto the holy ground and let it take him if he wished. However, Kord preferred his followers die as warriors, so perhaps dying to a weapon of war would be better. The dwarf opted for the latter, and removed his helmet. He laid on the ground, and Gortha took her lightning craghammer to his head, killing him.
Another moment of unsure shifts from the players, and I told them that the Warpriest woke up. He was on some sort of altar, and Gortha was standing over him. The other dead party members were also on nearby altars. The Warpriest spoke with Gortha about raising the others. Apparently Gortha couldn't do it again today, and by tomorrow too much time would pass. The Warpriest could raise one, and the high priest of Moradin could raise one, and had agreed to raise one of the Warpriest's choosing. The Warpriest immediately chose to bring "his brother" back, and moved to the Knight's corpse. He asked the high priest to raise the Scout after some debate, since he had been here longer, and since the Elementalist had previously warned that she might be called away at any moment.
The high priest was ready to raise the Scout, and told the Warpriest that perhaps he could speak with The Raven Queen about putting a stay on the Elementalist's soul passing on. Gortha was a cleric of Kord, and he was a priest of Moradin, so neither had much chance of pulling such a feat off. The Warpriest prayed for it while waiting for his extended rest (necessary for his resurrection spell), and rolled a Moderate Religion check. He knew that The Raven Queen had agreed to his request, but he also knew she was angry about something, and that there was a catch, but he wasn't sure what it was yet. The Scout and Knight were raised (and the Knight was no longer a Vampire), and were moved to private temple housing for now. After staying for another 24 hours in the room, the Warpriest raised the Elementalist as well.
The PCs planned on resting at least three days to recover (to get rid of the resurrection sickness of -1 on attacks, skills, saves, and attribute checks). The catch with the Elementalist, however, was that her -1s were going to stay until she had achieved three milestones. It was The Raven Queen's way of taking out her anger for the Warpriest. The Warpriest spent the next two days alone, feeling guilty about failing his friends and his goddess, and meditating on why she was angry. A Hard Religion check later, and he knew that she was angry that he had died (she'd raised him once before as part of his Background), and angry that he'd let those marked to live (the party members) be killed. She was also upset that the Warpriest had used a gift of Vecna (the Medallion of Death Deferred) and still died; she didn't mind that he used it, but if he was going to use such a tainted item, he'd better live and carry on her will.[/sblock]
Anyway, both TPKs went fine for my group. We weren't sure how we felt about the first one (it was the first TPK after years and years of play with our group), but in the end, we liked it. I mean, it ended a fairly enjoyable campaign, but at the same time, everyone knows that we're playing for keeps, and it makes the victories feel that much more earned. Not every player or group values that, but my players seem to (and I value it), so it was actually a positive experience in the long run.
(Also, I technically had another TPK in my 4e campaign, but that was orchestrated by me as a transition to lose one PC and bring in a new PC, and they were 'raised' by the death knight that had killed them [they were only level 4]. So I don't count it as a real TPK.)
My fellow players and I have been playing a long time so we are fully aware of what can happen and we fully accept it.
If I have bring in a whole new cast and they want to continue in the world then I will bring in the new cast in a place that makes sense. If they all die in a dungeon then the new party won't just appear in the dungeon or even near it, unless it's in a city and it makes sense to do so.
The game is built with ways to bring your character back but sometimes those options are not available so we shrug our shoulders, morn the loss, and carry on.
If I have bring in a whole new cast and they want to continue in the world then I will bring in the new cast in a place that makes sense. If they all die in a dungeon then the new party won't just appear in the dungeon or even near it, unless it's in a city and it makes sense to do so.
The game is built with ways to bring your character back but sometimes those options are not available so we shrug our shoulders, morn the loss, and carry on.
Pickles JG
First Post
Like the other's we usually just start another campaign.
We once had a mass quit. "We" being another play group over 30 years ago. After a high level game ended we started new 1st level characters every couple of weeks for the next few weeks. One week character generation, the next TPK, rinse & repeat. Eventually we decided we wanted to play Rolemaster instead of ADD & with a different DM.....
It's usually frustrating & anti climactic - like stopping reading a novel half way through but never really puts people off.
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
Tell them to roll up new PC's. TPK happen. Characters are characters, there is always a new one waiting to be generated.
Add their character sheets to my trophy board. Then have them roll up new characters. Starting a new campaign is good, or if you don't mind getting a little creative, have the new party of PC's continue the same campaign, but make adjustments based on what the earlier PC's accomplished (or failed to accomplish). And have their bodies and loot still be in the game world (possibly tossed in a refuse pit as the monsters cleaned up, or just bones picked clean and torn gear as scavengers have had their way with them).
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toasterferret
Explorer
Everytime I have a tpk, all of my players kill themselves like in that anti-D&D Chick tract. http://www.chick.com/m/reading/tracts/readtract.asp?stk=0046
drowdude
First Post
In the past I have had TPKs involving rather large groups (hey, its not my fault the vampire cast mind-fog and the frenzied-berserker failed his will save!); and it invariably meant that it was time for a new campaign. Honestly, it depends on your players and how well you know them. Some folks can get very demoralized if their characters die, others just move on without giving it a second thought.
I usually run solo games (once in a blue-moon I have two players these days). So every encounter is one bad sequence away from a TPK
If you wish to try and pick up the remains of the campaign, letting them make new characters close to the previous level is a good idea.
I usually run solo games (once in a blue-moon I have two players these days). So every encounter is one bad sequence away from a TPK
If you wish to try and pick up the remains of the campaign, letting them make new characters close to the previous level is a good idea.
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
The GM dances his Jig of Triumph while we stick our dead character sheets to the Wall of Death, joining all of the other dead characters.
Really, we don't have that many characters on the Wall of Death. But we have suffered a couple of TPKs in the last 16 years - one in Call of Cthulhu (something about a backpack full of dynamite in a cave) and once in D&D (cornered by a gang of smugglers in a cave). Hmmm... we had better avoid caves.
And then we move on. The CoC campaign ended - that was OK since my wife went into labor a few days later and I couldn't be the Keeper anymore for a while. The D&D campaign continued on with new 1st level PCs.
Really, we don't have that many characters on the Wall of Death. But we have suffered a couple of TPKs in the last 16 years - one in Call of Cthulhu (something about a backpack full of dynamite in a cave) and once in D&D (cornered by a gang of smugglers in a cave). Hmmm... we had better avoid caves.
And then we move on. The CoC campaign ended - that was OK since my wife went into labor a few days later and I couldn't be the Keeper anymore for a while. The D&D campaign continued on with new 1st level PCs.
toasterferret
Explorer
Heh, if you dont have tons of character deaths in CoC, something is wrong.
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