Okay last night the group was in a room and I ran out of the room and in the corridor we're about six foes in a group. I cast hypnotic pattern and got about four of them. When my wizard went out to attack them he said he wanted to attack one of the guys that wasnt Dazed and Confused from the hypnotic pattern. DM said that he didn't know what spell I cast and he didn't know what guys were under the influence, because he was in the room when I cast it. How would you handle this?
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D&D 5E Dm advice
- Thread starter Bennett
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iserith
Magic Wordsmith
So far as I can tell from your post, you cast hypnotic pattern, charmed four targets, and then an ally who was not in the room when you cast the spell ran back in and tried to attack a target that was unaffected.
If that is right, as DM, I would have described the environment as it stood after the casting of that spell prior to the player describing what he or she wanted to do. That description would most certainly have included which targets were standing slack-jawed and mesmerized and which ones were angrily rubbing their eyes and preparing a counterattack. A common mistake DMs make is that they describe the environment at the beginning of the fight, then that's the end of that. The basic conversation of the game is a loop on each player's turn. The environment needs to be described again when it changes so that the players are making informed decisions from their characters' perspectives.
As a player faced with such a DM, I would have described my character watching the enemies in the room to see which of them were on the defensive and which ones were not. When that was described, I would then call that out to the rest of the party and commence my attack.
If that is right, as DM, I would have described the environment as it stood after the casting of that spell prior to the player describing what he or she wanted to do. That description would most certainly have included which targets were standing slack-jawed and mesmerized and which ones were angrily rubbing their eyes and preparing a counterattack. A common mistake DMs make is that they describe the environment at the beginning of the fight, then that's the end of that. The basic conversation of the game is a loop on each player's turn. The environment needs to be described again when it changes so that the players are making informed decisions from their characters' perspectives.
As a player faced with such a DM, I would have described my character watching the enemies in the room to see which of them were on the defensive and which ones were not. When that was described, I would then call that out to the rest of the party and commence my attack.
Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
Hmmm, are you describing one character or two going out to the hallway? (Too many pronouns.)
Did the DM leave the room during the middle of the combat? How did the rest of you proceed without him?
As iserith noted, the situation has changed and the description needs updated. The newly-arriving character SHOULD be able to tell who is ready for a fight and who isn't.
Did the DM leave the room during the middle of the combat? How did the rest of you proceed without him?
As iserith noted, the situation has changed and the description needs updated. The newly-arriving character SHOULD be able to tell who is ready for a fight and who isn't.
The spell says the effects are charmed, incapacitated, speed 0. It leaves it up to imagination as to what this would actually look and sound like. The spell description says the spell creates a twisting pattern of colors, however, it would have disappeared before someone who wasn't there at casting could see it.
Being charmed, incapacitated, and speed 0 should have some kind of audio visual cues along with it. And a PC should be on the look for them if he were aware the spell had been cast. Something like "Four creatures are staring off into space and not moving. Two are active. What do you do?"
Being charmed, incapacitated, and speed 0 should have some kind of audio visual cues along with it. And a PC should be on the look for them if he were aware the spell had been cast. Something like "Four creatures are staring off into space and not moving. Two are active. What do you do?"
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Tony Vargas
Legend
Incapacitated should be fairly obvious.
I'd speculate that the DM was desperately trying to make you feel the 'limitation' of the spell, that damaged subjects get to break out of it, by making it more likely one of them would take damage. Also if he only had one un-affected victim left, it targeting you to break you concentration would be an obvious thing to do (to make you feel /that/ limitation, because concentration is made out to be such a big thing), which it can't, if your allies kill it before it acts.
I'd speculate that the DM was desperately trying to make you feel the 'limitation' of the spell, that damaged subjects get to break out of it, by making it more likely one of them would take damage. Also if he only had one un-affected victim left, it targeting you to break you concentration would be an obvious thing to do (to make you feel /that/ limitation, because concentration is made out to be such a big thing), which it can't, if your allies kill it before it acts.
I would tell the DM to not be an ...
There is no such thing as time stoppage in character. We have segregated inits and such to handle the game, but the two monsters that were not affected are still moving forward to attack or away to flee (or still reaching for weapons or whatever), their actions just don't get adjudicated until their init comes up. Tell your DM that this is obvious for PCs and NPCs in character.
If your DM does not play along with any of this just shout to your comrade "hit this one the others here are charmed". As far as I can remember such communications are not taking an action. Or prepare an action, in the way that you attack the first one that does make a move to attack. A confused target might make a kind of attack but surely not in a coordinated way.
Since it is a Wizard the DM should have said some of the mobs are under a spell right now, make an arcana check to quickly find about who is under a spell effect, that would have been fair game to me also.
Since it is a Wizard the DM should have said some of the mobs are under a spell right now, make an arcana check to quickly find about who is under a spell effect, that would have been fair game to me also.
Oofta
Legend
It can be tough on both sides of the screen to figure out how to run a game. Different people are going to have different preferences and styles, which may not always match up.
In your scenario if Fizzle the wizard hypnotized a bunch of opponents while Grog the barbarian was out of the room, I'd allow Grog to figure out which ones were incapacitated. Absolute worst case I'd give Grog an easy insight check. Grog is a barbarian after all.
I also let people speak a few words for their PCs outside of their turn, so I would have let Fizzle yell something like "The one on your left!" as the barbarian ran in.
But ... I'm not your DM. It should also go without saying that I'd probably do things you wouldn't like.
So what to do? Try to discuss the issue with your DM outside of the game. Explain why it bothered you, why it didn't make any sense. Try to come up with a compromise without getting confrontational.
Hopefully you can work something out but ultimately you'll have to either accept his ruling or find a new DM (or DM yourself).
Good luck!
In your scenario if Fizzle the wizard hypnotized a bunch of opponents while Grog the barbarian was out of the room, I'd allow Grog to figure out which ones were incapacitated. Absolute worst case I'd give Grog an easy insight check. Grog is a barbarian after all.
I also let people speak a few words for their PCs outside of their turn, so I would have let Fizzle yell something like "The one on your left!" as the barbarian ran in.But ... I'm not your DM. It should also go without saying that I'd probably do things you wouldn't like.
So what to do? Try to discuss the issue with your DM outside of the game. Explain why it bothered you, why it didn't make any sense. Try to come up with a compromise without getting confrontational.
Hopefully you can work something out but ultimately you'll have to either accept his ruling or find a new DM (or DM yourself).
Good luck!
As a player, I would find an appropriate time to discuss the matter further with the DM, see if we can all agree on how this stuff is supposed to work. Obviously the moment has passed, so maybe first thing next session.
As a DM, I'd hope I'm open minded enough to see both sides of any contentious issues, listen to any feedback, and agree with the players on what works for us all (bearing in mind there are usually a few things specific to the campaign the DM has in mind, that might warrant a specific house rule or two).
As a DM, I'd hope I'm open minded enough to see both sides of any contentious issues, listen to any feedback, and agree with the players on what works for us all (bearing in mind there are usually a few things specific to the campaign the DM has in mind, that might warrant a specific house rule or two).
