DM Genie

[Luke]

OGC doesn't need to be human readable. Releasing an entire binary as OGC is fine, assuming you have the legal right to so release it and don't mind that anyone can distribute the binary.

That's why I distinguished between SRD/SRD-derived content, and your own (pure) OGC.
If you distribute a work that does contain SRD or SRD-derived content then it must remain open and clearly distinguished (ie human readable). The same applies if you use other people's OGC.
Mixed in with other binary content doesn't cut it.

You're right about "assuming you have the legal right to so" - which you don't have, if there's any of that SRD, SRD-derived, or others OGC inside it.

 

[Klintus Fang]

This is all very interesting. I've worked off and on on gaming utility software for my game, so I have some cursory interest in this topic.

I get the impression that if one codes up all of the SRD material one needs into data tables that can be read by the binary, and then has all the binary's calculations derive only from the content in those tables, then you are in compliance so long as your data tables are in compliance. It seems this would have to be the case anyway, because if you code it up this way then the program is in essence nothing more than a generic "data file interpreter".

So I have a question: why don't a team of disparate people get together and rewrite the entire content of the SRD in some agreed upon (the team would have to haggle and debate to achieve that agreement), human readable , XML format (assuming XML is considered "human readable") that all of us can then use in our programs?

It seems like that might be a big undertaking, but wouldn't it simplify life for a lot of people? It would definitely simplify life for a newbie like me.

 

[Fast Learner]

If it included an XSL stylesheet that cleared out the tags then the two together would surely be considered human readable, eh?

 

[Klintus Fang]

I would not know, but I would assume so.

I know next to nothing about XML. But I am a programmer and am familiar with numberous other data formats, so I could familiarize myself with it fairly quickly. In other words, I'll set out trying to convert the SRD to XML by myself eventually I am sure.

But why I should do so alone, I have no idea. I guess the PCGen people are doing that to some degree, no?

 

[Fractalwave]

I would not know, but I would assume so.

I know next to nothing about XML. But I am a programmer and am familiar with numberous other data formats, so I could familiarize myself with it fairly quickly. In other words, I'll set out trying to convert the SRD to XML by myself eventually I am sure.

But why I should do so alone, I have no idea. I guess the PCGen people are doing that to some degree, no?

The main problem with doing this has been getting anyone to come to a consensus on the XML DTD. There is a group working on it. I just wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[CRGreathouse]

If you distribute a work that does contain SRD or SRD-derived content then it must remain open and clearly distinguished (ie human readable). The same applies if you use other people's OGC.
Mixed in with other binary content doesn't cut it.

No. Example:

Hypothetical SRD OGC

Blah.

Hypothetical SRD-based program source (red comes from 'SRD')

System.out.println ("Blah");

Hypothetical OGC declaration (OGC in green)

System.out.println ("Blah");

Hypothetical compiled [binary] (OGC in green)

01000101010010101010101001010101010100101000010101011010100101010010101010010101010101001010100010010100100111100101010101010110101001010101010010100101

This is perfectly acceptable. The OGL never requires OGC to be human-readable.

 

[Klintus Fang]

The main problem with doing this has been getting anyone to come to a consensus on the XML DTD. There is a group working on it. I just wouldn't hold my breath.

Who is working on it?

 

[Luke]

...This is perfectly acceptable. The OGL never requires OGC to be human-readable.

I'm just repeating myself here:
- Wizard's interpretation is that "clearly identified" implies "human readable".
- As far as they're concerned open scripting is a viable method for expressing SRD mechanics, but compiled binary isn't.
- This has surfaced many times in the official forums in often heated discussion, and has never been refuted.
- Interpret it differently, then distribute despite warnings, and you probably end up defending your interpretation in court.

That's not the way I wanted it to be, but it is the way it is. It certainly made my life a *lot* harder, and it's probably the one single great reason that you see unexpectedly few 3rd edition apps out there doing good stuff. I had to develop an entire RPG scripting engine to make RPM legally possible.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'm just repeating myself here:
- Wizard's interpretation is that "clearly identified" implies "human readable".
- As far as they're concerned open scripting is a viable method for expressing SRD mechanics, but compiled binary isn't.
- This has surfaced many times in the official forums in often heated discussion, and has never been refuted.
- Interpret it differently, then distribute despite warnings, and you probably end up defending your interpretation in court.

That's not the way I wanted it to be, but it is the way it is. It certainly made my life a *lot* harder, and it's probably the one single great reason that you see unexpectedly few 3rd edition apps out there doing good stuff. I had to develop an entire RPG scripting engine to make RPM legally possible.

I'll also sum myself up: Wizards does not believe that binaries allow for any identification of OGC beyond all/none.

I'll edit in supporting links from the OGF mailing list later; their website seems to be down at the moment.

 

[Luke]

I get the impression that if one codes up all of the SRD material one needs into data tables that can be read by the binary, and then has all the binary's calculations derive only from the content in those tables, then you are in compliance so long as your data tables are in compliance. It seems this would have to be the case anyway, because if you code it up this way then the program is in essence nothing more than a generic "data file interpreter".

No.

Both code and data that is part of the SRD needs to fulfil the criteria. Making the data alone openly readable (clearly identified), isn't enough.

Consider working out a creatures AC, by way of example. You may pull together a whole bunch of modifiers (dodge, dex, armor, magical enhancement, natural AC, magical item benefits, size etc etc).
The SRD is the source that tells you that the AC is 10, and what sort of modifiers are applied to it.

Now, the process of adding these together (choosing the right things to add), and applying the correct stacking rules, is all an SRD derivation. Therefore, the code that does all the work of calculating the AC is a derivation of the SRD, and must fulfil the license obligations. It can't be in binary.