DM Needs Help with Rules Lawyer

Murrdox

First Post
Monsters with reach and lots of attacks can make the best flanking rogue think twice about trying to flank. Presented with these situations, you'll encourage your rogue to come up with more creative ways to sneak attack.

Take a monster like a Troll. He has a relatively low CR... but he has a devastating attack and reach.

A common DM tactic is to target the strongest PCs first, and ignore the weaker ones. Well, if that rogue tumbles into a Troll and flanks him, DON'T let him get away with that, and keep beating up on the fighter with his 50 HP and 25 AC. When the Troll's turn comes up again, go after that rogue with only 30 HP and the 22 AC. A full-attack could possibly kill him, and even if it doesn't, the rogue will have to fall back and get healing.

Bottom line... if you never go after the rogue with the creatures he's flanking, players will start ASSUMING.

"Okay, I tumble in and sneak attack the level 15 fighter. He's got our barbarian on the other side of him... so he's probably not going to attack me anyways".

Prove him wrong and see the party suddenly scramble to save the life of the reckless rogue. Next time he'll be more careful, and figure out other ways of sneak attacking besides flanking.
 

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Magic Rub

First Post
A few other things that may help;

- Check out Armour of Reinforcement in the PsiHB gives (25%, 50%, 75%, 100% - depending on type) protection from Crits & Sneak attacks.

- Blink or Displacement (can't remember which & I don't have my book handy) Give % chance to miss based on the enchanted character being partly on the ethereal plane.

- From what I recall Purple Worms in the MM can't be flanked. You may also want to check out Tremor Sense, going from memory, a lot of monsters that have this can't be flanked.

- Depending on how far the blind sight extends, Creatures with reach may help your situation (& springing attack), so long as the reach is further then the blind sight. Move to range hit & move away

- Along the same lines as above. Invisible archers could prove very effective

- (It's been noted by others) - Undead, Constructs, & some Deamons & Devils are immune to Crits & Sneak attacks.

- Jellies, oozes, & slimes are immune to Crits & Sneak attacks.

- Any creature without a discernable anatomy is immune to Crits & Sneak attacks.
 

Murrdox

First Post
Magic Rub said:
A few other things that may help;

- Blink or Displacement (can't remember which & I don't have my book handy) Give % chance to miss based on the enchanted character being partly on the ethereal plane.

Actually, ANY concealment bonus (a % miss chance) from Invisibility, Blink, to Displacement, to Obsuring Mist, to regular old poor lighting automatically make a target immune to sneak attacks.

Of course, against a target with Blindsight, some concealment bonuses may not apply, such as Invisibility or Displacement. Blink would still function.

I believe Obscuring Mist would still work to cause a concealment bonus, because your Blindsight doesn't help you see through the mist at all.
 

cptg1481

First Post
Thanks

Excellent Suggestions all,

Thanks,

Perhaps I didn't create the right tone because of my irkedness (word?), anyway, The problems are seperate and distinct.

The suggestions about the blindsight thing being a standard action and working for 10 minutes at a time helps, I guess he doesn't say it he doesn't get it will do the trick. Also I think I will have to work out some reasonable number of times per day the blindsight ability is availiable.

I don't want to nerf anything in the game especially a player's key abilities, i.e. sneak attack, however, I do want to make it more challenging for him. I can't seem to subject him to much if any damage with the constant flankning avioding tumbling etc., just looking for help here.

The rules lawyers thing raises it's ugly head usually in the heat of some battle and I hate slowing down play, and he's not one of those kind to drop something until it goes his way so I usually just say something like ok you win.

In fairness afre the game when I look up what we argued about we are about 50/50 on the rulings. So I have taken to planning planning for his arguements in advance with the SRD, eratta and such but this seriously makes my game less fun. Which has worked for the last two sessions.

Not really looking for input here (just venting to the community) if worse comes to worse I'll just tell him to get lost.

In conclussion thanks for the advice...my etheral, fiendish barbarian 7 will bring the smack and give me some satisfaction next session.
 

LokiDR

First Post
Murrdox said:

I believe Obscuring Mist would still work to cause a concealment bonus, because your Blindsight doesn't help you see through the mist at all.

Actually, I think blindsight would get through obscuring mist. It can't be any worse than pitch black.
 

Maitre Du Donjon

First Post
Re: Thanks

cptg1481 said:
The rules lawyers thing raises it's ugly head usually in the heat of some battle and I hate slowing down play, and he's not one of those kind to drop something until it goes his way so I usually just say something like ok you win.

In fairness afre the game when I look up what we argued about we are about 50/50 on the rulings. So I have taken to planning planning for his arguements in advance with the SRD, eratta and such but this seriously makes my game less fun. Which has worked for the last two sessions.

Not really looking for input here (just venting to the community) if worse comes to worse I'll just tell him to get lost.

I know how you feel. I'm one of those player types :/ I know it gets on the nerve of the DM (and perhaps even the other players), but I just can't help it!!! (although i've tried to improve my behaviour lately)

One thing I must say is I don't mind the DM ruling on the fly, but I also get irked when the DM isn't consistent with his rulings.

Try to talk to him OOG. And both try to know all the rules by heart. ;)

Good luck with all of that.

Maitre D
 

Murrdox

First Post
I believe the reasoning why Obscuring Mist will give a concealment bonus vs Blindsight is that your Blindsight ability allows you to see the mist just fine... so it still gets in the way of seeing your target.
 

spunky_mutters

First Post
Re: Thanks

cptg1481 said:
In fairness afre the game when I look up what we argued about we are about 50/50 on the rulings. So I have taken to planning planning for his arguements in advance with the SRD, eratta and such but this seriously makes my game less fun. Which has worked for the last two sessions.

Not really looking for input here (just venting to the community) if worse comes to worse I'll just tell him to get lost.


It does suck to have someone in the group determined to grill you over everything he doesn't like. If you're stuck with him at least you'll get to know things a lot quicker than you otherwise would, and you'll get better at dealing with him and shutting him up as time goes on.
 

LokiDR

First Post
Re: Thanks

cptg1481 said:
The suggestions about the blindsight thing being a standard action and working for 10 minutes at a time helps, I guess he doesn't say it he doesn't get it will do the trick. Also I think I will have to work out some reasonable number of times per day the blindsight ability is availiable.

The activation is in the ability. He will likely respond "ok, from now on I activate it every 9 minutes out of combat." It is annoying for him, and you, to say "I do this thing" every few minutes.

cptg1481 said:
I don't want to nerf anything in the game especially a player's key abilities, i.e. sneak attack, however, I do want to make it more challenging for him. I can't seem to subject him to much if any damage with the constant flankning avioding tumbling etc., just looking for help here.
I had an identical problem, so I sympathize. Don't depend on AoOs and add in the odd "immune to crit" monster. A little spice should be plenty.

cptg1481 said:
The rules lawyers thing raises it's ugly head usually in the heat of some battle and I hate slowing down play, and he's not one of those kind to drop something until it goes his way so I usually just say something like ok you win.

I have done that to DMs, and had it done to me. Just remember, the moment it annoys you, say "rule 0" and talk about it after the game. I doubt the other players want to sit through the arguments.
 

LuYangShih

First Post
What exactly is the problem, anyway? Is he activating magical darkness and than attacking, with Blindsight on, allowing him sneak attacks? That is a great way to use the ability, and if he is doing that, I do not think you should try and curtail it. Otherwise, flanking and sneak attacks have risks for the Rogue.

If he does that to a Warrior, who does not drop, he is probably dead. Have you seen what a FRA from a good Fighter does to your average Rogue? Perhaps you can give a specific example of how he is causing you to completely rethink encounters in your campaign.
 

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