DM Needs Help with Rules Lawyer

[Darklone]

Sneak Attack is the way how the rouge fights,

Damn, that lipstick got through my eyeliner!

 

[Winternight]

Damn, that lipstick got through my eyeliner!

Dammed Typo
It get`s me everytime,
Rogue, Rogue, Rogue, Rogue, Rogue, Rogue, Rogue .... 100-times

 

[LokiDR]

I would advise some creative dice fudging as well, since some rogues tend to have quite high an ac due to tumbling and high dex...Its amazing that a rogue in light armor can get a better ac then a fighter in full plate when tumbling into partial defense...thats just wrong in my eyes.

Fudging the dice should never be your first option. I am faintly disturbed you mentioned it. If you don't like the AC of the rogue, change the rules. But, if you ignore the rules you can expect the players to do the same. It is also not a good idea to unbalance the game like that, it breaks player expectation and makes the game more annoying and less interesting. If you are up to fudging dice, you might as well use "cows from space".

If you feel rather nasty, give your Big Mobs some nasty spotting tool (like blindsight and sneak attack) and let him ready an action and sneak attack your rogue right out of existance when he approaches.

Uncanny dodge.

 

[LokiDR]

It's already said, but I have to repeat it and emphasize it.
Sneak Attack is the way how the rouge fights,
he has an lousy attack bouns (therefore not as many attacks per round as the fighter) , lousy strength (usually).
Don't deny him that part of fun.
I did once play a rouge and after doing in one game session some cool damage suddenly all creatures were immune to critical damage.
Even normal living ones.
DM quote "I make the monsters not wizard"
He is damm right about that.
But that took the fun about of the game for me, I knew the DM was playing aggainst me not with me like my new DM. So i quit the group.
(how would the standart fighter like it if you take away his weapons and his armor for several gaming sesions, one is really cool, two is ok, three are annoying and every one more is untolarable.
Or the wiz spellbooks, or .... )
B]

Hmm, working against you, like cheating?

The is NO reason that the rogue should get sneak attack every round, every attack, on every creature. None. The rogue can be useful to the party based on scouting, traps, and dealing with NPCs. At higher levels, uncanny dodge, uncritable monster, and fortification get more common as there are more levels/money to throw around. But the rogue can use wands and scrolls when this happens.

Sneak attack is a privilege, not a right. So long as the DM keeps a balance (the rogue isn't making others look bad), it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Winternight]

Sneak attack is a privilege, not a right. So long as the DM keeps a balance (the rogue isn't making others look bad), it shouldn't be a problem.

Just what i said
Bringing undeads and constructs or anything which is imune to sneak is fine. "Fighter your my best buddy". But not every monster is imune It is totally intolerable to fight only against such monster (unless you play the famous "against the Lich king and his Million undead minions") . But bringing Otyughs which are which are Immune to SNEAK but not to critical which the fighter scored is UNFAIR.
This wasn't just one gaming session but several.
(Ok the Otyughs just appeared once)
--
BTW Cheating (as DM) is fine. As long yu don't kill a player err character with it.
In the case of that infamous rogue if the DM don't count the damage delt by the rogue, the player is still happy.
("wow that monster had 300 Hits and I did alone about 150 with my sneak attacks-Cool")
The only problem occurs if he is doing more damage than the figher, but then maybe the fighter did something wrong.

 

[MeanGenes]

How my DM does it...

The way my DM plays monsters is that they (almost) always attack the character who is the biggest threat. If a monster takes more damage from a sneak-attacking rogue than the fighter, then the monster will concentrate all its attacks on the rogue until it drops. If it's the wizard blasting it with Magic Missiles, or the cleric blasting it with a Flamestrike that is doing the most damage, then the monster will switch to them.

 

[LokiDR]

But bringing Otyughs which are which are Immune to SNEAK but not to critical which the fighter scored is UNFAIR.
This wasn't just one gaming session but several.
(Ok the Otyughs just appeared once)

That is perfectly fair. You can't sneak attack them, fine. That would be true of a rogue/barbarian 3 or less levels below you. Just because one character is less useful for one combat is not the DM targeting you.

BTW Cheating (as DM) is fine. As long yu don't kill a player err character with it.
In the case of that infamous rogue if the DM don't count the damage delt by the rogue, the player is still happy.
("wow that monster had 300 Hits and I did alone about 150 with my sneak attacks-Cool")
The only problem occurs if he is doing more damage than the figher, but then maybe the fighter did something wrong.

Rampantly cheating is destructive to the game, and should only be used as an emergency patch. "Crap, I guess they really can't handle 2 girralians, but the CR said it would work". If you use the patch to cover the persistant problem (rogue) you are doing a disservice to the game. Handle the underlying problem by changing tatics/monster/player ideas. If you just arbitrarily increase monster on the fly, you are going to disrupt the CR system.

If the rogue is outpacing the rest of the party, you should knock the rogue down a peg or three. If the fighter is weaker than the rest of the party, he should get a boost. Hit the pegs, don't cover them.

 

[Winternight]

That is perfectly fair. You can't sneak attack them, fine. That would be true of a rogue/barbarian 3 or less levels below you. Just because one character is less useful for one combat is not the DM targeting you.

I could have lived it they'd had a higher CR for that, but ..
As I said it wasn't just once, but let's quit the personal level.

Rampantly cheating is destructive to the game, and should only be used as an emergency patch. "Crap, I guess they really can't handle 2 girralians, but the CR said it would work". If you use the patch to cover the persistant problem (rogue) you are doing a disservice to the game. Handle the underlying problem by changing tatics/monster/player ideas. If you just arbitrarily increase monster on the fly, you are going to disrupt the CR system.

Fully Ok with you.
A DM has to cheat, sometimes to buff up monster "No! I spend two hours for that guy, not in the first round" sometimes the two girralians groupkill as you said.
But only sometimes, otherwise the characters just live on the whims of the DM.
And as you said if you alter the monster you should alter the CR (and therefor the exp)

If the rogue is outpacing the rest of the party, you should knock the rogue down a peg or three. If the fighter is weaker than the rest of the party, he should get a boost. Hit the pegs, don't cover them.

Yes and no.
Somebody have to be better than the others, but in every field it has to be another guy.
The roug should be great with sneak and sneaking damage, but with Undeads - thats the priest job. He should do his d6 damage and the say the priest the magic words "begone foul creature" and the undeads ecplode.
But if he does more damage (unsneaking) than the fighter something is wrong.

 

[LokiDR]

I could have lived it they'd had a higher CR for that, but ..
As I said it wasn't just once, but let's quit the personal level.

Personal, no. Just stating the encounter, by its self, is fair. Which it is.

Fully Ok with you.
A DM has to cheat, sometimes to buff up monster "No! I spend two hours for that guy, not in the first round" sometimes the two girralians groupkill as you said.
But only sometimes, otherwise the characters just live on the whims of the DM.
And as you said if you alter the monster you should alter the CR (and therefor the exp)

Cheating means the characters live at the whim of DM. Not the other way around.

Yes and no.
Somebody have to be better than the others, but in every field it has to be another guy.
The roug should be great with sneak and sneaking damage, but with Undeads - thats the priest job. He should do his d6 damage and the say the priest the magic words "begone foul creature" and the undeads ecplode.
But if he does more damage (unsneaking) than the fighter something is wrong.

If the DM doesn't present those situations that focus on the other strengths of the party, the DM should change their tatics. If the one character is perfectly suited to all the encounters the DM throws at them, the situation should be changed. The rogue is not entitled to sneak attack ever hit.

 

[BVB]

Re: Re: Thanks

It does suck to have someone in the group determined to grill you over everything he doesn't like. ...

Likewise, no player likes a DM who isn't using the same set of rules. Players put a lot of effort into making good character-design choices, and it really sucks when the DM negates facets of what makes the character who he is.

"Grilling" a DM is probably a player seeking consistency and reasoning -- "Why is X allowed by not Y?" or "I thought the rules said this; was I wrong?"