D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[tetrasodium]

I can't speak for Mort, but I can say that there are plenty of tools out there in the books, and on Youtube, and on Reddit, and on these forums, etc... Let me give you a suggestion for how to discover them yourself.

I suggest planning a one shot for your players. Tell them to build 5th level PCs using point buy, and that each one gets one rare item, two uncommon items and unlimited mundane (nonmagical) items. They also get three uncommon spell scrolls / potions of their choice. They can use any WotC class/race options.

Then, you get to build a one shot dungeon to challenge them for a five hour session. You get to use a small cavern and a road for your battlemaps, and the monsters you get to use in your build are:

19 goblins
4 wolves
1 bugbear
4 traps that have DCs no higher than 13 and deal no more than 2d8 damage each (but can hamper PCs, such as a snare or a pit)

If that sounds familiar, you may have played an intro adventure for 5E. These are appropriate challenges for a 1st level party with starting gear, and you're going to challenge heavily armed 5th level PCs.

Think about how you'd use your resources to make an interesing challenge for the PCs. Think about how (and why) the monsters might be prepared for the PCs and use their capabilities to provide challenges for the PCs. Figure out things the monsters might be doing that the PCs might have to disrupt. Experiment. Think outside the box - but make sure the story makes sense. If you try this a few times, and succeed in building fun one shots this way, it may influence how you approach the rest of your adventure building in a positive way.

That's answering a pretty different question than the one asked though. If the GM's "job" is to ''balance for a more powerful party" with no say on how powerful is too powerful there must be tools built into 5ethat enable that gm to finesse monsters encounters & even individual PC strengths to the needs of their group. Past editions had various tools for that & I even named a few. You seem to be answering a very different & unasked question.

If you need to point at YouTube reddit & these forums as examples of tools 5e provides the gm you've listed three tools that are explicitly not things that [k]5e provides°. To go on and even suggest specific monsters for a group of a specific level very much calls into question if 5e actually provides[j] any tools for the gm to finesse encounters & even specific PCs as older editions once did. Our of the three tools you listed that are not provided by 5e reddit was created in 2004, YouTube 2005, & it looks like these forums seem to go back to 99 putting them squarely in the time frame of multiple past editions predating 5e. If there are "plenty" provided by 5e itself, why can they not be named

 

[gnarlygninja]

So...why not have an adult conversation?

And if you can't have an adult conversation, why are you choosing to play with this person? In anything, not just D&D?

Sometimes you wind up in groups where adult conversations aren't possible, and it's easier/better than being alone. It's obviously not ideal or healthy but it does happen.

 

[payn]

This is also your player's leisure time. If you get to be picky because it is your leisure time, why can't they choose to play the PCs that make them happy?

They can; at another table.

Truly, your miles seem different to you, but the question I'd ask you to consider is why the groups can't

Sure, there is some level of playing up and down that comes into play. Though I have my limits.

Picture 9 people playing ball. The first is a former MLB catcher. The second was a college pitcher. The third a high school star that didn't go to college. Then there are a few folks that played in high school, a bench warmer and someone's significant other that has never held a bat before, but thinks this could be fun.

In one scenario, the former MLB person is frustrated that everybody sucks, that nobody is taking it as seriously as him, and that nobody is really making a win the priority. The former college player agrees, but doesn't realize the MLB player considers him in that bucket of people that suck. There is bickering and criticism, and pretty soon nobody has fun and everyone is looking to end early.

In the next scenario, everyone is having fun. The former MLB player is showboating - with one at bat sending the ball out of sight, and the next a strikeout as he tries to hit the ball with the bat between his legs. The college player tried to blast one out after the MLB player, but had to give mad respect at the imporessive shot - but did manage to make contact with the bat between his legs (non-dirty). The other folks are playing and everyone cheers on the significant other when they manage to make contact that goes nearly as far as the one hit between the legs of the college players. There may have been drinking. Who is to say.

The situation is going to be what we make of it. Every time people get together to have fun, the people that are there are deciding whether it will be fun or failure.

Speaking from experience: You absolutely can have powergamers at the table with inexperienced or RP focused players while everyone has fun. It isn't a lot of work, either. It just takes the right mentality. This game is only as fragile as we make it. One of the groups I currently DM has two optimized builds and two really odd builds that are on the weaker side. Everyone is having fun. The optimized builds are doing 80% of the damage. However, the other two have starring roles in some of the storylines. Everyone is itching to get back to the table to discover what comes next.

You can say, "That is fine - but that is not how I want to play." To an extent, that is fine - but my question would be whether you're making the players happy with your approach, or if they have any frustrations or disappointments in having options curtailed when there are steps to avoid powergaming.

I don’t take steps to curtail power gaming, I remove folks from my games for being incompatible. Also, yes there have been times I am the person who left the group.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Sometimes you wind up in groups where adult conversations aren't possible, and it's easier/better than being alone. It's obviously not ideal or healthy but it does happen.

Okay. You really shouldn't do that with a game like 5e, which was built presuming that this is not true.

 

[Mort]

If you choose to play a character who gets their power from an outside source in my game, I as the DM have no problem making that fact affect the character.

And as long as the player is aware of that - that's fine.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And as long as the player is aware of that - that's fine.

Of course. This isn't about a "gotcha" situation. If anyone plays such a character at my table, they will know at session 0 what is expected of them by their patron/god whatever.

 

[gnarlygninja]

Okay. You really shouldn't do that with a game like 5e, which was built presuming that this is not true.

I don't think any game is built presuming it's true, which doesn't change the fact that it happens.

 

[Bagpuss]

If I could be bothered banning all the S and F tier stuff might help.

Powergaming only becomes an issue for me if abused.

What the heck is "tier stuff" anyway?

 

[Zardnaar]

What the heck is "tier stuff" anyway?

Tier lists are popular online and places like YouTube. They'll rate anything not just D&D. Videogames also see it a lot.

A feat like Sharpshooter will get an Sctier ranking while a rubbish one gets a D or F (most use S,A,B,C,D).

Feats, classes, races get rated. A Twilight cleric for example is S tier so you might add warcaster (A or S) and pick some race that is S tier as well.

Gloomstalker ranger plus variant human or woid elf, plus sharpshooter would be another "meta" example.

 

[tetrasodium]

What the heck is "tier stuff" anyway?

Like letter grades
F<D<C<B<A<S

Usain Bolt might be an example of an S rank athlete or sprinter because he went so far past what was considered to be A rank that he needed to create a whole new ranking when he exceeded the curve to such a degree
.

Rank Inflation - TV Tropes

In video games, rather than mark the player on a simple success/failure scheme, it is common to give the player some kind of rank (e.g. bronze, silver and gold medals, or grades A+ to F-), depending on their performance. This allows casual …

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