DMGenie - Masters of the Djinn Yahoo Group missing

[rom90125]

Azhrei,

Thanks for taking the time to post. I, for one, enjoyed the informal lesson.

 

[rom90125]

See, there's one critical difference here. The WotC forums are _theirs_. theycan discuss, distribute, change, charge for, give for free anything of _their_ material they want to in any format they want to.

WotC doesn't care about Joe GM and his gaming crew swapping stuff back and forth between each other.... What they care about is wholesale sharing of their material.

So, following this logic, I could write a non-OGL PrC script for a software app, say, PCGEN, and publish it on the WotC boards, correct? It's _their_ boards so they won't care that I'm sharing it with my online group...

 

[bloodydrake]

sigh the IP police are in full riot gear as usual..
I so enjoy the fact they make blanket statements on THE LAW without ever considering that they don't know THE LAWS of every country out there.
For example in my home country up until recently its been completely legal for me to lend an item of something i buy to someone and legal for them to make a copy..yep thats right.As long as i didn't make the copy for them that is.


As well the concept of Fair Use is oblivious to them,media shifting,timeshifting,format conversion,ect ect..just because someone says there isn't any fair use of our product..don't mean there isn't..it just means they dont' condon it and retain the legal right to pursue action they don't agree with.And along the way hopefully someone with lots of cash will be willing to fight for the rights of indiviuals ..that are being unjustly criminalized.

Any fool knows there are many laws that are not about whats right or fair use..but whats right for those with the big bucks,about protecting their ability to gouge the average person of as much cash as they can.
The legal system is so far behind what the curve they are trying to make blanket laws in the states,like the DMA,that protect those with big bucks without really considering just how unjust they are..

In My Opinion,If i make a converted copy of some IP from paper to electronic ..as any joe can, and lend it to anyone that sends me a digital picture of them holding the same IP and a receipt Proving beyond a shadow a doubt that they own it as well. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to share the converted IP..PERIOD.
Yet the IP police will rant and rave how degenerate we are for doing so..that we are nothing but common criminals bla bla bal..Capitalist Greed at its worst.

Do we really need to pull up every LAW that has been found to be unjust unconstitutional for every country out there to prove that sometimes just because something is a law that its not right?

Now in all of this i'm in no way advocating the blanket stealing of a product.If you don't own a copy of it,theres no reason you should be trying to share it,go buy a copy.
But In my opinion this black and white retoric that is being spewed is rediculous,and far from the whole picture.

In my opinion If you buy something be it a book, a cd, amovie, you will never convince the vast majority of the world it isn't fair that i can convert it from one medium to another no matter what private interest group gets a law pushed thru in some country that states otherwise

 

[BarakO]

I slammed CMP in the last thread because I believe you make profit off of easily created items with the datapacks.

Huh? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard (excuse me, the sentiment behind it is absurd, not the actual statement since that's probably completely true).

People can make hamburgers too, that's pretty simple, but there are millions of burger joints in the world. Do you object to them too?

What's your objection to a company making money for doing something that people would rather part with their money for rather than their time?

 

[DonTadow]

Huh? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard (excuse me, the sentiment behind it is absurd, not the actual statement since that's probably completely true).

People can make hamburgers too, that's pretty simple, but there are millions of burger joints in the world. Do you object to them too?

What's your objection to a company making money for doing something that people would rather part with their money for rather than their time?

I"m sorry, taken as just that, it sounds absurd. But you have to know the whole system. What if there was just mcdonalds, and even though stan could make a better burger, he's not allowed to make a better burger for their program. Forget about selling that burger, he's not even allowed to make the burger and give it away.

Thats what gets me steamed. AT this pace companies will start claiming IP for any translation, any parody, any cliff note like taking. The bigger companies don't even have to be right, they only have to have the money to either A. buy expensive lawyers, (WOTC) or B. buy their competitors outright (EA).

as far as etools, In the beginning there were lots of datapacks floating around and the programming for etools was simple, but CMP has made it more and more difficult to put things into system let alone share it. I happened to be on e-tools yahoo forum, and they even threatened to shut their own user community down. Lets kick those people who bought our stuff in the face.

 

[drakhe]

Hear hear!

Azhrei,

Thanks for taking the time to post. I, for one, enjoyed the informal lesson.

Hear hear!
I've always admired people with the ability (and the will to make the effort)
to write a clear statement as Azhrei did!

 

[Kirin'Tor]

as far as etools, In the beginning there were lots of datapacks floating around and the programming for etools was simple, but CMP has made it more and more difficult to put things into system let alone share it. I happened to be on e-tools yahoo forum, and they even threatened to shut their own user community down. Lets kick those people who bought our stuff in the face.

These statements are obviously comming from someone whos eigher [or both] (A) never used eTools, or only used it once (B) just trying to make eTools look bad, for whatever reasons.

It's easier than ever to add user data to eTools, CMP has even worked with a certin individual who's made external editors for eT, because that's what the users want. The last few updates to the eTools program have added both more user interfaces (the built in class editor) and more functionality to support user additionions (almost nothing is hard coded, so nearly any data can be added). I don't care how many vague and blanket statements you make out into the air, but the minute you start lying through your teeth, then that's where this stops being a debate, and starts being something else entirely.

Lets just ignore the whole 'IP' issue, and start talking about the real issue. You'rea writer of soem form, DonTadow. I don't know what kind, but I'm going to make soem assumptions, so please don't peg me on not knowing exactly what you write...

I'm going to assume that you write weekly articles for some form of peroidical (paper, magazine, web, etc.). I'm also going to assume you get paid some amount, based on sales of access to that periodical (or perhaps you sell your column directly to consumers).

How would you feel if I scanned and copied your article, and just stared sending free copies to all of your clients? Would that worry your bottom line?

Or, to be closer in example, say you'd been given exclusive rights to write novelizations of movie scripts, from a specific company, say WB ('because it's short)? Let's also assume you pay a 15% royalty to the script's writer, and you can keep the rest (excluding publishing cost and whatnot). How would react if you found out someone _else_ was novelizing those scripts, and not only were they just as logical as yours, but they were giving them away free? Would you sit back and watch your profits dwindle? (All while your exclusive, totally legal, lisence was being ignored? Waht would you expect WB to do in that case?

This isn't about big evil corporation stomping out competition, it's about an upstart that got lucky to hit a big contract (well, big in that's it's exclusive and from WotC) and is defending it's right to earn a profit. This agruement isn't about IP at all...it's about quelling one guy who like's to control threads and flame entire companies based on ... what seems to be no expirence with them, no use or their product, and nothing more than malice.

 

[bloodydrake]

Lets just ignore the whole 'IP' issue, and start talking about the real issue. You'rea writer of soem form, DonTadow. I don't know what kind, but I'm going to make soem assumptions, so please don't peg me on not knowing exactly what you write...

I'm going to assume that you write weekly articles for some form of peroidical (paper, magazine, web, etc.). I'm also going to assume you get paid some amount, based on sales of access to that periodical (or perhaps you sell your column directly to consumers).

How would you feel if I scanned and copied your article, and just stared sending free copies to all of your clients? Would that worry your bottom line?

But the point is it won't affect his bottom line if the people all paid for the paper/magazine in the first place..they already bought it, there is no loss of revenue,and aslong as you only shared this media transfer with paid subscribers that already own it there is no harm done.

NO one is advocating giving anything to people that haven't already paid for something.
The only thing this is lost is the potential to stick it to the end consumer twice for the samething..and the only way thats realistic is if the manufacture had to spend resources doing it..if its done by the end user it doesn't cost them anything.

I can scan any article i want for my own personal use that i've paid for..so can the other 50 people that all bought it..but if we work together to do it collectivelly to cut down on the leg work suddenly your doing somethiing wrong..

You know what i'd like to see. Companies work on a way to facilitate fair use thats secure. and protects against blatent theft.Fight the piracy of actual material not punish those that paid for it.

 

[DonTadow]

These statements are obviously comming from someone whos eigher [or both] (A) never used eTools, or only used it once (B) just trying to make eTools look bad, for whatever reasons.

It's easier than ever to add user data to eTools, CMP has even worked with a certin individual who's made external editors for eT, because that's what the users want. The last few updates to the eTools program have added both more user interfaces (the built in class editor) and more functionality to support user additionions (almost nothing is hard coded, so nearly any data can be added). I don't care how many vague and blanket statements you make out into the air, but the minute you start lying through your teeth, then that's where this stops being a debate, and starts being something else entirely.

Lets just ignore the whole 'IP' issue, and start talking about the real issue. You'rea writer of soem form, DonTadow. I don't know what kind, but I'm going to make soem assumptions, so please don't peg me on not knowing exactly what you write...

I'm going to assume that you write weekly articles for some form of peroidical (paper, magazine, web, etc.). I'm also going to assume you get paid some amount, based on sales of access to that periodical (or perhaps you sell your column directly to consumers).

How would you feel if I scanned and copied your article, and just stared sending free copies to all of your clients? Would that worry your bottom line?

Or, to be closer in example, say you'd been given exclusive rights to write novelizations of movie scripts, from a specific company, say WB ('because it's short)? Let's also assume you pay a 15% royalty to the script's writer, and you can keep the rest (excluding publishing cost and whatnot). How would react if you found out someone _else_ was novelizing those scripts, and not only were they just as logical as yours, but they were giving them away free? Would you sit back and watch your profits dwindle? (All while your exclusive, totally legal, lisence was being ignored? Waht would you expect WB to do in that case?

This isn't about big evil corporation stomping out competition, it's about an upstart that got lucky to hit a big contract (well, big in that's it's exclusive and from WotC) and is defending it's right to earn a profit. This agruement isn't about IP at all...it's about quelling one guy who like's to control threads and flame entire companies based on ... what seems to be no expirence with them, no use or their product, and nothing more than malice.

Happens all the time, its called a wire. And I have no say so what story gets picked up or when it gets picked up on the wire. Plus stories get linked, posted and printed on websites all the time. Its the nature of the business.

But this isn't about scanning books and putting them as pdfs. This is about making scripts of classes and feats based on published books to share with other owners of the books and the program whom don't have scripting capabilities. The argument sounds silly. Its ok to send it to another friend but once you find away to send it to a bunch of friends its wrong? What if one friend sends it to one friend ect.

Again no ones advocating stealing any content they didnt pay for. I'm not even displaying my views on sharing music and books. Im worried about trying to include minor programs, scripts and notes into this ip argument. Then getting on the forums and salem witching groups and people because of your own views. Yahoo closed the forum soley on word of mouth as they had no idea how to check if there was ip in the scripts considering you'd have to have an understanding of programming to go through each one.

Don't kid yourself. This is every bit about big companies preventing innovation in the name of profit.

Scriptiing easier in e-tools? Obviously never used anything else.

 

[kingpaul]

What does CMP have to do with DM genie. Last i heard you wern't a fan of the program.

Haven't you read Mynex's posts? He's stated that he uses DMGenie.

I slammed CMP in the last thread because I believe you make profit off of easily created items with the datapacks.

And what's wrong with that? Its been stated before that you can create the datasets for yourself. Its the distribution that's the issue

HOwever, this thread is about the actions I believe you guys did to have the yahoo group shut down (which you have not denyed).

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2556886&postcount=33

If this was a crime youd be the first suspects, simply because of the irate nature of your remarks only a month ago. You showed anger towards the community and it was noted a few times that you were quite upset. Plus, again, you're on a forum about a program you also stated was inferior to your own, that you do not like.

I, for one, have not been angry. I do not use DMGenie, its true, but I don't recall ever saying that it was inferior. And, as I stated above, Mynex himself has stated that he uses DMGenie. The issue towards the DMGenie community you were discussing in the other thread was the fact that WotC's IP was being distributed without permission.

SUre ,it could be just a big coinecodence. But its a heck of a one. Plus agin reading your remarks, it doesnt sound like you're denying any involvement.

I've already given the link to Mynex's post on this comment. Now, let me post mine:

I had nothing to do with Yahoo!'s decision to close down that group or to delete the owner's account

Far from the contrary, your remarks on here are more of a "good ridance i'm glad thats gone , they were criminals on there". Looking back on the thread, theres not one remark showing that you have any interest in what happened to the forum only to see how people reacted that it was gone and comment about how bad it was anyway.

The only piece of the group that I recall being discussed was the distribution of WotC's IP.