So I have recently got back into D&D, formerly a player and now the DM. I've got a home group of three PC's with two NPC retainers. Looking ahead in the Mentzer Expert Set, I am intrigued by the idea of the characters building strongholds. I remember a lot of daydreaming and castle drawing when I was a kid, but as a player never went through this. As far as making sense in game, I see it, but I need some help as the DM. How do I make the art of building, and then administering a barony fun? Do we deal with internal conflicts, training of soldiers, politics, and civil war? Do you guys ever pit PC's against each other using the mass combat rules in Companion? Are there any story seeds, adventure modules, and the like to help guide this higher level play?
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DM'ing a "Stronghold" adventure in BECMI
- Thread starter Sorin_777
- Start date
ExploderWizard
Hero
There are a number of different ways to handle the aquisitionand administration of strongholds. The most important ones to focus on will depend on what your players want out of the game. Are they interested in building them in the first place?
Assuming your players are interested there was a module series that dealt with this. Get CM1 Test of the Warlords. Its a good blend of adventure for a higher level party along with domain acquisition and a bit of war.
Assuming your players are interested there was a module series that dealt with this. Get CM1 Test of the Warlords. Its a good blend of adventure for a higher level party along with domain acquisition and a bit of war.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Strongholds in D&D are a reward for some classes. A Class Ability. Stronghold play isn't a module in and of itself. It is made up of many other smaller components.
Attracting Followers and Henchman? That's part of owning and running a stronghold.
Building something? That too.
Buying and selling? Yep.
Staking out territory in a dungeon? Territory for a stronghold is awarded by others or basically the same as the dungeon.
Bought a house? Maybe it's a castle.
Hiring people to help you do stuff? That could mean keeping a castle ship shape.
Navigating the high seas? ...well, maybe your castle goes places too, right?
Bought food and water, any supplies for the party? Castle accounts start to add up to big $
Attracting Followers and Henchman? That's part of owning and running a stronghold.
Building something? That too.
Buying and selling? Yep.
Staking out territory in a dungeon? Territory for a stronghold is awarded by others or basically the same as the dungeon.
Bought a house? Maybe it's a castle.
Hiring people to help you do stuff? That could mean keeping a castle ship shape.
Navigating the high seas? ...well, maybe your castle goes places too, right?
Bought food and water, any supplies for the party? Castle accounts start to add up to big $
Halivar
First Post
My players built a stronghold with a pile of gold, they soon realized that the costs were exorbitant. Now by the rules (assuming Stronghold rules BECMI are the same as in RC), you can mitigate these costs if you have help and materials. My players ended up questing for these: they helped to clean out a dwarven stronghold of duergar for help with stone and ironwork, as well as some dwarven labor, and helped a human village for wood.
In this sort of campaign, the stronghold gets built in pieces, with adventures centered around acquiring labor and material, usually by performing favors in the form of quests. Periodically, they will have to defend their half-finished construct using whatever men-at-arms they have acquired.
Also, welcome to EnWorld!
In this sort of campaign, the stronghold gets built in pieces, with adventures centered around acquiring labor and material, usually by performing favors in the form of quests. Periodically, they will have to defend their half-finished construct using whatever men-at-arms they have acquired.
Also, welcome to EnWorld!
Thanks guys for the responses and the welcome.
Part of me was wondering if it would be worth the effort to change the play style from dungeon crawl to city administration. I do remember a fantasy anthology series that I really liked back in the day called Thieves World. What I liked about it was one, they were books of short stories. But two, they were connected by a setting, and that setting was a very Lankhmar type of a city. Characters may have appeared in different stories, but there was only a loose continuity. I think going back and reading these, because it seemed to have a lot of ideas about adventures to run within a city type of setting. Otherwise, "time passes, you made/lost this much money" seems kind of pointless. Module wise I do think I'll try out the one suggested, but overall I think I'll be doing my own writing in advance. My players are not at name level yet, so I have probably a few weeks to get ready at least.
Part of me was wondering if it would be worth the effort to change the play style from dungeon crawl to city administration. I do remember a fantasy anthology series that I really liked back in the day called Thieves World. What I liked about it was one, they were books of short stories. But two, they were connected by a setting, and that setting was a very Lankhmar type of a city. Characters may have appeared in different stories, but there was only a loose continuity. I think going back and reading these, because it seemed to have a lot of ideas about adventures to run within a city type of setting. Otherwise, "time passes, you made/lost this much money" seems kind of pointless. Module wise I do think I'll try out the one suggested, but overall I think I'll be doing my own writing in advance. My players are not at name level yet, so I have probably a few weeks to get ready at least.
Halivar
First Post
IMHO city administration is best handled as "old business" at the start of the session. For instance, you as DM will be rolling for random events (again, assuming BECMI = RC for Domain rules) for the Domain, and if nothing incredibly disruptive happens as a result, this could take all of 5 minutes. Also, players can let you know what their civic policies are between sessions or at the end of the session, or whatever. The meat of your session can still be dungeon delving.
It highly depends on what kind of campaigns your players enjoy. For "heroic, high magic" adventures where the PCs save the world from a demonic invasion by killing the demon lord in a titanic struggle, a keep is more of a hindrance or annoyance than a boon.
But for a more gritty and down to earth style, a keep is a endless source of adventure.
Make sure to decide on the government form and also communicate that to the players. Expectations of how nobility and government worked in the middle ages vary widely and only leads to confusion when the players are not on the same level. I personally prefer feudalism with the PCs being on the lower levels like barons with a single castle and surrounding land under their command.
Then they are not sun king style absolute rulers and also have obligation to their liege lord (some count, far away from the king of the country). And of course a lot of court and other intrigue you can make adventures out of.
Also, make sure that the players are ok with one of them being the top dog, meaning baron, and gets a little more spotlight. Otherwise try to find a other style of government (how about a merchant republic with them all belonging to the same house?).
I think the best, most fun adventures are not the ones which revolve around building stuff (unless it is truly epic stuff for a barony which taxes the lands but also alters it significantly) or the day to day business of the realm (although such an adventure at the beginning is good so that the players can get a feel of the setting), but instead about unusual events in the barony (and beyond) and how the PCs handle them.
Some ideas:
- The baron nearly died in an accident. Was it really an accident or an attempted assassination? And it also highlights the issue that he (assuming a typical D&D party) is unmarried and has no heir. Some surrounding barons and even a count are willing to marry one of their daughters to him, one more ugly than the next. But the alliance he gets would be a useful one.
- A peasant reports having received a miracle of <insert deity here> in a nearby <insert deity appropriate location>. A first investigation and even some low level divination confirm it. But was it really one? In the meantime the word has spread and pilgrims from all over the place arrive. With them comes money, but also crime and zealots, not only from the deity who bestowed the miracle, but also of his enemies.
- Your liege is raising the taxes higher and higher to indulge his hedonistic life style. Your peasants are grumbling, your coffers are empty, but your lieges claim is strong and he bought himself the respect of his peers. How do the PCs handle it?
- A group of priests with armed guards of a <distrusted race or nation / civilized monsters> appear and ask for permission to missionary on your lands. As payment they promise great gifts to come in a few months. DO the PCs allow them to stay? Are they true to their word? And what if yes and their religion becomes popular causing an outrage among the nearby lords?
- A large band of religious warriors traveling to their destination (think Crusade/Jihad) come through your lands. The leaders are courteous and as a true believer you are obligated to help them, but also their presence disrupts the country as they need to gather and pillage for their supplies. The peasants are worried that they will starve in winter and some even start to question the church!
- The brother of the duke (the liege of your liege) arrives with a band of mercenaries and the levies of some local barons and wants your support in overthrowing his brother who is a tyrant. It is obvious that he would make the better duke, but it is still a rebellion and choosing the wrong side could mean your heads. Especially as the king has not yet spoken on that matter (and is also too weak to enforce order).
But for a more gritty and down to earth style, a keep is a endless source of adventure.
Make sure to decide on the government form and also communicate that to the players. Expectations of how nobility and government worked in the middle ages vary widely and only leads to confusion when the players are not on the same level. I personally prefer feudalism with the PCs being on the lower levels like barons with a single castle and surrounding land under their command.
Then they are not sun king style absolute rulers and also have obligation to their liege lord (some count, far away from the king of the country). And of course a lot of court and other intrigue you can make adventures out of.
Also, make sure that the players are ok with one of them being the top dog, meaning baron, and gets a little more spotlight. Otherwise try to find a other style of government (how about a merchant republic with them all belonging to the same house?).
I think the best, most fun adventures are not the ones which revolve around building stuff (unless it is truly epic stuff for a barony which taxes the lands but also alters it significantly) or the day to day business of the realm (although such an adventure at the beginning is good so that the players can get a feel of the setting), but instead about unusual events in the barony (and beyond) and how the PCs handle them.
Some ideas:
- The baron nearly died in an accident. Was it really an accident or an attempted assassination? And it also highlights the issue that he (assuming a typical D&D party) is unmarried and has no heir. Some surrounding barons and even a count are willing to marry one of their daughters to him, one more ugly than the next. But the alliance he gets would be a useful one.
- A peasant reports having received a miracle of <insert deity here> in a nearby <insert deity appropriate location>. A first investigation and even some low level divination confirm it. But was it really one? In the meantime the word has spread and pilgrims from all over the place arrive. With them comes money, but also crime and zealots, not only from the deity who bestowed the miracle, but also of his enemies.
- Your liege is raising the taxes higher and higher to indulge his hedonistic life style. Your peasants are grumbling, your coffers are empty, but your lieges claim is strong and he bought himself the respect of his peers. How do the PCs handle it?
- A group of priests with armed guards of a <distrusted race or nation / civilized monsters> appear and ask for permission to missionary on your lands. As payment they promise great gifts to come in a few months. DO the PCs allow them to stay? Are they true to their word? And what if yes and their religion becomes popular causing an outrage among the nearby lords?
- A large band of religious warriors traveling to their destination (think Crusade/Jihad) come through your lands. The leaders are courteous and as a true believer you are obligated to help them, but also their presence disrupts the country as they need to gather and pillage for their supplies. The peasants are worried that they will starve in winter and some even start to question the church!
- The brother of the duke (the liege of your liege) arrives with a band of mercenaries and the levies of some local barons and wants your support in overthrowing his brother who is a tyrant. It is obvious that he would make the better duke, but it is still a rebellion and choosing the wrong side could mean your heads. Especially as the king has not yet spoken on that matter (and is also too weak to enforce order).
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