D&D 5E DMing "Out of the Abyss"

[Guest 6801328]

Another idea: some "planned random encounters" that result in the party having to choose between saving two of the NPCs. Whittle the group down to manageable size, but through forcing players to make hard choices, not DM fiat.

 

[Daern]

For what its worth, I ran the escape first series of Underdark encounters completely off the top of my head because I was running a spur of the moment Hangouts session, so you don't HAVE to prep ahead of time.

 

[Celtavian]

After doing a perusal of this adventure, it seems the designers said "Here's some pieces of what could be an interesting adventure. Put it together yourself." That's not how WotC used to do modules. This module looks like almost no work was put in to design an actual adventure. It's just a big book of hooks. I hope I'm wrong once I do a more thorough read through. If it isn't more organized with better encounter descriptions than it appears, it may be the first and last 5E module I buy from WotC.

 

[Guest 6801328]

After doing a perusal of this adventure, it seems the designers said "Here's some pieces of what could be an interesting adventure. Put it together yourself." That's not how WotC used to do modules. This module looks like almost no work was put in to design an actual adventure. It's just a big book of hooks. I hope I'm wrong once I do a more thorough read through. If it isn't more organized with better encounter descriptions than it appears, it may be the first and last 5E module I buy from WotC.

There are a number of small, designed mini-adventures inside it, but it's not a complete, end-to-end adventure. (Nor is it a "module".) It is a campaign book.

Would you even want an adventure for levels 1-15 that fit inside a single book that size?

 

[discosoc]

I normally GM, but I'm currently playing this. It's not really that fun to me.

 

[FriarRosing]

This gave me an idea:

It would be fun to have a bunch of "pre-planned random encounters" like this, but with notes on the various NPCs:
"If Bupido is with the group, he..."
"If so-and-so is with the group..."
Etc.

Make the party composition affect how the encounter unfolds.

I'm reading through the adventure now, not sure if I'll ever get to run it, though I hope to. But one I think I would've really liked to see is something like this for most locations or events or random encounters. For the most part the various NPCs the players meet as slaves have been largely ignored after the first chapter. I'd like to see them mentioned more frequently, with notes on how they might respond to different people, places or things, so we get a little more sense of their characters as the adventure goes on. Not that they should take away the spotlight from the PCs of course, but just to give them a little more character and presence through the rest of the adventure.

 

[Hussar]

it would appear my initial concerns are confirmed with a bonus prize. Earlier I stated it seemed odd that you had stat blocks up to CR 4, then boss monsters with CR 21+, and nothing in the middle. The notion that WotC compensated for this by referencing specific encounters like MM creatures was also delusional. CR 4 encounters are about right for a "not quite level 8" group. The sunsword is incredibly powerful for a level 1-4 adventure. Vs. Orcus it's like a Varmint Rifle vs. an Elephant, and there's more than 1 Elephant in the room. I think one of the Demon Lords, Orcus, you might be allowed to consider him +1d8 radiant damage as an Undeath Demon, but in RAW, maybe not. That leaves you with a 1d8+2 weapon. Adding your token +5 from Dex or Str, and you have 1d8+7 (12).

Assuming 75% of the attacks hit, assuming 3 attacks per round, You are looking at 27/round. The demon lords are around 400 hp each with variation. So if you can live 10 rounds, then sure. Radiant, Force, and Acid spells are probably your best bet, with automatic saves and half of half being quarter damage, so about 10 radiant damage per additional spell caster each round. A group of four yielding possibly 57/round gets you about 7 rounds on a good day. Not sure how many PCs the demon lords can take down in 7 rounds, but that's what goons are for. But notice something odd?

Your resources aren't intended to function any better than hirelings, random NPCs and so forth. Basically, if the game is designed as a suicide mission where the plot defeats the enemy, then the DM can run this game with just themselves and a party made up of their favorite character and some hirelings. That was my original conjecture. The facts that 1. the storyline assumes goons are provided and 2. the DM has to basically pencil in 80% of the experience points from random encounters means it's true. This is a product designed for the DM's own pleasure.

DMs buy adventures, and Players buy supplements for their characters. DMs run adventures and the players enjoy being around the DMs, but I think this adventure is relying heavily on two appeals. 1. Appealing to the DM, making it fun and work for them, to the point that they don't even need actual living players to run it, and if the living people do show up, its so much railroading or stacked against the PCs that the DM can get a huge ego boost; 2. Depends heavily on the DM's personal charisma to drag people through a very unpleasant sequence of sadistic events. The Table Top Equivalent of Cut Scenes and Broken Minigames.

I have a couple of Charismatic Dungeon Masters so they will probably try to make this work. One of them will probably just use the auto-leveling milestone system like they did with Tiamat. But this Adventure has the mark of the Realms on it for sure. You can always tell when the importance of the PCs is so heavily de-emphasized and the NPCs and Villains are the most important part of the story.

Here's some questions.

1. you know you need a whole bunch of radiance spells or preferably enchanted weapons to face one of the bosses (since the others are going to WWE themselves down to 1) do the wizard characters have even the 10-20 days required downtime to manufacture a +1 weapon?
2. Has anyone else realized it might be really, really dumb to go from level 1 to 15 in less time than it takes to enchant +1 weapons? None of the hirelings have them, from what I recall, so they are all just meat bags.
3. What if you don't want to watch an epic cut scene of WWE demon lords tag team matching Jubliex and putting Demogorgon in a figure 4? What if you want to take your adventuring party against all of them, either one at a time, or as a group, is that even possible in 5e? In other words, are 5e characters forever doomed to be mere shadows of AD&D PCs?

In my imagination, I see epic heroes clashing against titanic forces of darkness. But I don't think the adventure is designed that way. I think we are supposed to bring pop corn, be awed, and then towards the end of the cage match, fling the bodies of our golf caddies at them like T-shirt cannons, and then hose them down from range after they've been softened up from too many DDTs by Graatz.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Sandbox Adventures. People wanted a sandbox and that's what they got. Which means that, unlike a linear adventure, the adventure will not hold you hand. You are expected to do a lot of heavy lifting here. This is not a module for someone who wants to read it through once, plop it down and play. For those adventures, I'd suggest Hoard or Princes.

 

[Hussar]

There are a number of small, designed mini-adventures inside it, but it's not a complete, end-to-end adventure. (Nor is it a "module".) It is a campaign book.

Would you even want an adventure for levels 1-15 that fit inside a single book that size?

To be fair, there are a number of examples of modules that are exactly that. The previous two AP's are pretty linear, with Hoard being more linear. Even going back to 3e AP's, with things like Shackled City or Savage Tides, you had (largely) linear AP's that went 1-20+ that would fit into a similar page count. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is another example as well.

It's not like it's something new. This module is new in that it's the first really sandboxy AP that WOTC has done. But, as I said earlier, sandboxy expects a lot more from the DM than linear. This module will not hold your hand and take you from A to B to C. It's far too open for that. Which means the DM has to be a bit more on the ball in order to run it smoothly.

 

[ad_hoc]

I'm reading through the adventure now, not sure if I'll ever get to run it, though I hope to. But one I think I would've really liked to see is something like this for most locations or events or random encounters. For the most part the various NPCs the players meet as slaves have been largely ignored after the first chapter. I'd like to see them mentioned more frequently, with notes on how they might respond to different people, places or things, so we get a little more sense of their characters as the adventure goes on. Not that they should take away the spotlight from the PCs of course, but just to give them a little more character and presence through the rest of the adventure.

I have read through the first half. It is filled with 'if so and so is in your party they do this' parts. There are usually 1 or 2 for each location.

I wouldn't worry about the extra NPCs. The part where the PCs are enslaved is there to set the stage and to get to know the NPCs. The ones they build rapport with and trust will hopefully survive and they can escape together. They might take to the calm, unassuming ones, or be impressed with the tough ones and figure (rightly so) that having them along will help them survive.

It is up to the PCs to form those relationships. I think it is a great way to maintain the social pillar when they are otherwise facing alien threats.

 

[FriarRosing]

I have read through the first half. It is filled with 'if so and so is in your party they do this' parts. There are usually 1 or 2 for each location.

I wouldn't worry about the extra NPCs. The part where the PCs are enslaved is there to set the stage and to get to know the NPCs. The ones they build rapport with and trust will hopefully survive and they can escape together. They might take to the calm, unassuming ones, or be impressed with the tough ones and figure (rightly so) that having them along will help them survive.

It is up to the PCs to form those relationships. I think it is a great way to maintain the social pillar when they are otherwise facing alien threats.

Ah! Well that's good, then. Looks like I just need to read a little further--I'm admittedly still pretty early in the book, and may have been premature with my complaints.