DMs Help ME Sorcerer Just Picked Contingency!

[questionmark]

How should I rule contingency? My pc wants invis greater to trigger "whenever combat starts". How should I rule this?
I want to say that wont work since he is trigering an in game spell with an out of game term. My player is not trying to pull a fast one(so plaese dont bash him) but he wants to use the spell to its max potential. We were also thinking of doing a command word contigent instead, but I am fuzzy on the rules on when a character can say something during combat. Is it when his intitive hits or can a character say something whenever he wants. Help

PS if their are other posts pertaining to this spell please link them if you know them. this is the first time this spell has entered our game.

 

[mhd]

I'd say that any trigger has to do with the sorcerer himself, like the examples in the PHB. And "combat starts" is way to general. Let's say the sorcerer is watching a gladiatorial game. Would that turn him invisible? He's walking merrily along a road, when in the meadow next to it a combat between ant and aphid starts, whoosh, invisible?

Nah, he needs to come up with something a little more restricted. "Whenever I get attacked" should work. Even "when someone within 30 feet draws a weapon" should work out fine...

 

[mikebr99]

I'd say that any trigger has to do with the sorcerer himself, like the examples in the PHB. And "combat starts" is way to general. Let's say the sorcerer is watching a gladiatorial game. Would that turn him invisible? He's walking merrily along a road, when in the meadow next to it a combat between ant and aphid starts, whoosh, invisible?

Nah, he needs to come up with something a little more restricted. "Whenever I get attacked" should work. Even "when someone within 30 feet draws a weapon" should work out fine...

Heh... the character goes Invisibile every time Ma grabs the knife to carve the turkey.




It has to be something like "gets attacked" And this would work even if the 1st attack missed... or it could be something the character could do as a free action at the start of his 1st turn (ie. say bye bye!... snap fingers...etc.).


Mike

 

[mhd]

or it could be something the character could do as a free action at the start of his 1st turn (ie. say bye bye!... snap fingers...etc.).

Yeah, Tenser's Transformation whenever anyone snaps a finger

"I'll break you like this!" *snap*

 

[Ottergame]

Then the problem arrises... what exactly qualifies for an attack? Someone trying to grab him to pull him from a pit trap? *poof! You can't see him now, you have a 50% chance of missing trying to save him* Someone tossing him a potion? How about if a guard tries to frisk him for weapons? Or if a bar maid slaps him?

 

[Hardhead]

I would have no problem with "when combat starts" or maye "when our group gets in a fight," which would be the same thing, just worded a little more strictly. It seems pretty clear when it would happen mechanically, and it makes sense out of game as well. I don't see the problem.

 

[mhd]

Magical conditions traditionally are a little bit anal (cf. Wish), so I'd try to avoid any ambiguity. The DM, the player and the character himself shouldn't have any problems deciding when the trigger occurs, but how does the magic do it? Is there some kind of invisible watcher from the Plane of Lawyers(tm) hovering around?

Ambigous events can always trigger the spell prematurely, I don't think the player really wants it that way. What about some snipers taking some potshots? It's the surprise round, but already the combat has started, the group is in the fight, the excrement hit the ventilation device, the weasel went pop... Omniscient magic? "Hey, John-Dalf just turned invisible! Ambush!"

In this case I don't see any detriment in choosing a keyword/action. Invisibility only really helps the sorcerer when he's able to participate in the combat. There are some conditions where this isn't the case, e.g. the old "teleport me home when I fall unconscious". If, at the start of the combat the sorcerer gets paralyzed, held or anything else, well, what help is invisibility then?

This isn't about curbing powergaming, it's more following logic. If you word it in-game with "when combat starts" and DM and player come to the conclusion that this indicated by the player rolling initiative, okay. Either have some additional out-of-game clause like this or make it really clear. Or you'll just get into arguments when the event finally arises.

 

[allenw]

Contingent Spells: what does "affects your person" mean?

I was just about to start a Contingency thread, but why duplicate effort?

My question, which may also be of interest to the original poster and the Sorcerer in question:
Contingency (text quoted below) is range "Personal," target "You," and the Contingent spell "must be one that affects your person." Does this mean:
A: It only works on spells that target a single individual, such as Shield or Invisibility;
B: It works on any spell for which the caster is a valid target, but even if the spell could ordinarilly target multiple targets (i.e., Haste(3.5), Teleport) it only targets the caster;
C: It works on any spell for which the caster is a valid target, and if the spell could ordinarilly target multiple targets (e.g., Haste(3.5), Teleport), the caster gets to decide who (if anyone) is targetted at the moment of activation
D: It works on any spell that could affect the caster, even if the caster isn't technically a "target" (e.g., Fireball), with area and effect spells "ground-zeroing" on the caster;
E: Other.

Contingency
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: At least 10 minutes; see text
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: One day/level (D) or until discharged
You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead.
The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).
The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.
You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.
Material Component: That of the companion spell, plus quicksilver and an eyelash of an ogre mage, rakshasa, or similar spell-using creature.
Focus: A statuette of you carved from elephant ivory and decorated with gems (worth at least 1,500 gp). You must carry the focus for the contingency to work.

 

[Rackhir]

Look your player is probably using an "out of game term" because it best sums up what he is looking for. Actually, it really isn't all that much of an "out of game" term, it you think about it the meaning of "in combat" is really pretty clear. The char is in a situation where there is some immediate threat to him, even if it isn't directly to him at that immediate second.

Just use common sense. Walking past a dueling ant and aphid and having that trigger it is just being dammed silly. If the sorcerer was in a bar where a brawl had just broken out near him, could reasonably trigger it, but watching a gladiatorial combat from the stands is simply another silly example.

I guess your decision is to what degree the magical function operates intelligently. Contingency is a pretty high level spell (8th? I think) so it really ought to be fairly powerful/intelligent in operation. Contingency is after all intended as a "Guardian Angel" kind of spell, so making it operate stupidly really violates the context of the spell. It would certainly not be out of bounds to give it a certain amount of awareness of things that the player is not aware of because of the intent of the spell.

 

[der_kluge]

This should help -

IMC, Contingency *knows* all those conditions that the PC would know as if it was taking 20 on any of the PC's abilities or skills.

In other words - if the contingency is on "when I am attacked", but the PC doesn't see the attacker (an archer in a tree, for example), the Contingency might, if the DM makes a successful Spot Check to notice the archer. The PC might be oblivious to it, but the Contingency would still see it. We did this because if the PC was knocked unconcious, we ruled that the contingency would still continue to activate regardless. Or, if the PC was blinded by magic, or something.

Secondly, the Contingency can fire if the Sorcerer says so. "Activate when I say Teddy Ruxpin." So, as a free action, the Sorcerer can activate his own contingency whenever he desires.

I agree that something like "whenever combat breaks out" is far too vague. It has to be a fairly concrete thing for it to work. "Whenever I am injured by another creature" might work, or "whenever I am harmed by magical fire" or something like that.