D&D (2024) DM's no longer getting crits on PC's

[tetrasodium]

Ok, I didn’t consider that use.

And the reason I didn’t is because most of the time, in my regular group, it doesn’t come up. It’s rare (and scary) for adversaries to attack downed characters.

I could see a variant rule, in the “gritty” chapter of the DMG, that restores something similar.

My average group has 5 or more players & monsters attack downed players every chance they get, frankly it doesn't matter unless it's a monster like hydra or gross suicidal "lets go kill this mage we know is in there while already running on wackamole healing" type fireball->fireball->fireball TPKs(mostly only in AL for those). There are just too many ways to bring a PC up at no meaningful cost & immediately escaping to the rear is almost guaranteed safe escape with disengage Even if a PC does escape & get pursued or beat on with ranged they still reset the death save "clock".

Back with death at -10 it was scary to be down (bleeding out or not) because bob only got healed exactly as much as he got healed & the negative counted against that healing while monsters dealing 10 points of damage was pretty easy without even needing to attack the downed NPC. Adding to the fear was that it was a nontrivial problem for the party to get to bob & help with his dirtnap situation without putting others at risk or making sacrifices.

In 5e it's about as scary as a player checking if they made a successful attack roll or not spoiler: They probably did

Edit:also the crit change isn't presented as an optional or "variant" rule, why should a risk injecting compensation be otherwise? At what point is it reasonable to ask why players even have hit points instead of just defaulting to God mode unless the gm starts clawing back power over player ptotest?

 

[Gravenhurst48]

I’ll just use both lol

Like, oh hey this bugbear can do explosive damage and then disappear (recharge 6), sweet. Y’all better hope he don’t crit.

My table uses the somewhat popular “max normal damage and then roll damage dice again” houserule for crits, so…these crit changes are dead opposite how we roll.

This critical recharge sounds like Assassin's Creed Odyssey, where you can hold an attack to charge it for one super attack. But if you are hit while holding the charge you may lose the attack, so concentration or a dex or str roll may be necessary to keep the charge. But I don't care, I am sticking with my own D&D. No more new editions for this DM.

 

[Gravenhurst48]

If double damage is too swingy, I wouldn't mind criticals imposing special effects, for example:

Greatclub. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 18 (3d8 + 5) bludgeoning damage. Crit: 18 (3d8 + 5) bludgeoning damage and if the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 16 Constitution saving throw or be stunned for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a succes

I do use roleplaying extra moments, and for my giants a crit means the PC gets clobbered either pounded into the pavement eating dirt stunned and prone, or tossed 10 ft possibly taking falling damage, or a longer distance depending on the giants size and strength. You may outsmart or outwit a giant but don't naughty word with one cuz you might end up dead from a random critical hit.

 

[Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper]

I prefer a risk vs reward gaming style. When I DM, both players and the DM will always be able to crit.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I prefer a risk vs reward gaming style. When I DM, both players and the DM will always be able to crit.

Hmm. That’s fine to prefer monster crits, but what does that have to do with risk vs reward?

 

[Gravenhurst48]

Concerning Critical Hits:

For example, an Ogre deals 2d8+4, for a potential of 20 points. The PCs fighting an ogre know such damage is possible and the risk involved.

But a critical that is for 4d8+4 and a potential 36, that is the sort of hit that leads to downing a PC unexpectedly. (I suppose ruining the fun for some...)

The simple solution is to just make criticals maximum damage instead of rolling double dice. A lot of people do use this option. The result is barely less than the average of doubling the dice, after all.

In the above example, double dice averages 22 points, while maximum is 20, so just two points shy.

I believe between AD&D 2E and the Players Options edition, a variant was full damage on first 20 roll and a second roll was allowed: If no 20, no second die damage roll; if a 20 is rolled a second time, then a second die of full damage is given. I can see this rule was carried over into 3E/3.5 by adapting the critical range on weapons and monsters natural weapons - threat ranges. If you hit within the threat range you crit, so 18-20 is a crit and the two options for damage was to just allow two damage dice for random amount, or one full die amount, if I recall correctly.

 

[Gravenhurst48]

Why wouldn't they apply well to monsters?

A claw or a fist or a big set of teeth are weapons, aren't they?

Especially, when their natural weapons are considered magical. Why would claws that are +1 daggers not be able to critical damage a PC?

 

[Stalker0]

This thing about fights not being deadly without crits is nonsense. It’s a roughly 10% boost to total damage. And usually even a crit isn’t that bad. It’s just that when the crit lands AND the damage dice are improbably high that bad things can happen. It’s so rare and so random that it doesn’t change tactics; it’s just an arbitrary lightning strike.

It does change perception though, and that's the trick. Critical hits often add a lot of perceived threat, without a lot of actual threat.

Sure the chance that a monsters crits on both attacks and does a crapton of damage is extremely rare....but it could happen, and so it might be on a player's mind. This creates extra threat and challenge without having to up the monster's offensive power.

The problem of course is that every once in a while that perceived threat becomes real, and under the right circumstance can kill a player "arbitrarily", especially at low levels. Sure the chance that a brand new player with their 1st character takes a big crit and dies in their first combat is probably very low....but if it happens you might have just lost a player permanently. Though of course a veteran DM might realize that this is just one circumstance where maybe its best not to let the die fall where they may and make some mechanical or narrative "mulligan" for the player.

 

[Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper]

Hmm. That’s fine to prefer monster crits, but what does that have to do with risk vs reward?

If you play with player only crits, then combat for the players poses less risk as they are not fearful of the DM rolling 20's. As a player you gain all the benefits of scoring a crit, but have no fear of a crit being scored against you. No risk, but gain a reward.

I have seen so many video games ruined by developers listening to the whiners that want the game made easier for them (usually a vocal minority). In my opinion, this is a step in that direction -- however, unlike a video game where the ruleset is static, in roleplaying we have a dynamic ruleset at the option of the DM. In that line of thought, I would prefer to see crits scrored for both sides as part of the core rules, but then just list as an option for perhaps when playing with younger players, or with players that want to focus more on story, that player only crits might want to be considered.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It does change perception though, and that's the trick. Critical hits often add a lot of perceived threat, without a lot of actual threat.

Sure the chance that a monsters crits on both attacks and does a crapton of damage is extremely rare....but it could happen, and so it might be on a player's mind. This creates extra threat and challenge without having to up the monster's offensive power.

The problem of course is that every once in a while that perceived threat becomes real, and under the right circumstance can kill a player "arbitrarily", especially at low levels. Sure the chance that a brand new player with their 1st character takes a big crit and dies in their first combat is probably very low....but if it happens you might have just lost a player permanently. Though of course a veteran DM might realize that this is just one circumstance where maybe its best not to let the die fall where they may and make some mechanical or narrative "mulligan" for the player.

Well, a lot if that depends on your opinion regarding lethality. Personally I just don't take a PC that seriously until they have a few levels under their belt. If they die, they die, and I just pull up another character idea.