Do animated undead add to EL?

[Sporelock]

Does anyone know if there is a rule that deals with this: Do the undead animated by Animate Dead increase the EL of an encounter with the caster who animated them? For example, if a 5th level cleric would be considered EL 5 for a particular team, would that same cleric surrounded by all the undead he is capable of controlling, still be EL 5?

Summoned creatures never affect the EL of the encounter because they are spells and part of the character’s options just like a familiar or animal companion is part of the options for certain classes. Animate Dead is a spell too, but it seems to be in a different class because it creates permanent minions. The cleric can create a lot of undead well before hand, use them as grunt labor and guards, and when he is defending his lair, he gets the benefit of multiple minions and still has use of all his spells.

 

[kenobi65]

IMO, it depends on whether he summoned the undead ahead of time (i.e., before the encounter with the cleric). If the party arrives at the encounter and there's already a passel of skellys walking around, I'd say they get counted in the EL. If the cleric casts the spell during the encounter, then it's mechanically just like a Summoned creature, and so, I'd say it wouldn't count.

 

[Dracorat]

No they don't but defeating the cleric should reward some bonus exp under the "well prepared" circumstance. Usually an extra ten percent is justified.

 

[Sporelock]

The big difference is that even undead animated on the fly are permanent, so can't be dispelled nor held at bay by Protection From Evil. They can be turned, but that can be defended against (Desecrate) to some degree. So even created on the fly they are still highly advantageous.

However, for the sake of the discussion, the example is definitely aimed at the caster having previously created the total amount of controllable undead. A 5th level cleric can have 20 HD of undead undead his control and it would only cost him 500 gps plus a pile of corpses.

 

[lukelightning]

I'd say yes. Treat 'em as monsters, not a spell. Generally it's difficult to cast animate dead in combat anyways, since you ahve to go around putting onyxes in the eye sockets, etc.

It's like if a mage sneaks up on you invisibly and casts summon monster VI and sics the monster on you and teleports away; I'd give XP for the monster.

 

[moritheil]

Would you increase the EL of a fighter who was wearing his armor, as opposed to one who was caught sleeping and didn't have his armor on?

It's the same thing, really - a prepared evil cleric will likely have some undead around. Why give more XP for it when the undead come right out of his/her resources and spell slots?

 

[kenobi65]

It's the same thing, really - a prepared evil cleric will likely have some undead around. Why give more XP for it when the undead come right out of his/her resources and spell slots?

If the cleric had created the undead earlier (i.e., the prior day, or before), as far as the encounter's concerned, he really hasn't used up any resources. He still has all his spell slots available.

If that's the case in the encounter in question, then I'd treat the undead as separate. If the cleric had made the undead "today", then, yes, he's used up resources, and I might rule differently.

 

[Sporelock]

Lukelightning

Summoning spells still are just spell effects and they take an action to cast (which can have a risk associated with it even when invisible), they are very temporary (1 round per level), take a spell slot or charge of an item so casting them like your sneaky mage is a just a tactic and could be useful. Not much different than a mage casting fireball into a room down the hall that he knows intruders are in but they won’t see it coming.


Moritheil

The fighter’s EL would be based on him at his best, not unarmored, weaponless and helpless, so if anything, the EL of the fighter would be lessened because he does not have armor (not saying that is what I would do, if the party were clever and timed their attack right, then they should be rewarded)

I see the two example much differently though. The fighter in or out of armor is one individual and can only take one action per round. A caster with undead minions has many permanent allies that can attack many enemies at once, protect the caster, surround enemy casters and the caster gets all that without touching his repertoire of spells for the day. The caster with his army of long ago created undead is free to cast Desecrate, Negative energy spells that heal the undead and hurt the enemies, enchantment spells like Deep Slumber that won’t affect the enemies…..

 

[pawsplay]

Would you increase the EL of a fighter who was wearing his armor, as opposed to one who was caught sleeping and didn't have his armor on?

It's the same thing, really - a prepared evil cleric will likely have some undead around. Why give more XP for it when the undead come right out of his/her resources and spell slots?

By that logic, a bard with a high Diplomacy could be accompanied by "friends" who give no XP, dungeons full of traps constructed by the kobolds therein give no experience, and so on.

Undead are a long term investment. The cleric doesn't choose whether to cast "these twenty skeletons I keep around for just such an occasion" for instance. They're there, day in, day out, week after week until someone destroys them.

 

[Nail]

The fighter’s EL ....

The fighter doesn't have an EL. He has a CR. The distinction's important, as you are seeing here.

A Clr 5 is a CR 5.

A Clr 5 with some CR 1 undead might be a EL 6.

A Clr 5 that is hidden behind a illusory wall on a ledge above the PCs while his CR 1 UD are down below........is probably a EL 7.

Get it?



As for the Create Undead spell (etc): If he's doing it during combat, the created undead are not counted toward XP. If he's done in "the day before", the UD count toward XP.