Do chaotic gawds have paladins?

[Umbran]

By the core rules, a cleric must be within one alignment step of his or her deity. But paladins are not clerics...

Paladins, by the core rules, don't need to have a deity at all (technically, nether do clerics). So I can't see why a paladin cannot fight for the good ends desired by a Chaotic Good deity.

Personally, I don't like the "paladins of every alignment" thing. part of the balance of the paladin is the Code, and you can't expect any non-lawful character to adhere strictly to a code. More importantly, having an equivalent for each and every alignment makes them less special.

 

[Turjan]

Plus, the example of Sune was already given. She is a chaotic good deity and has lawful good paladins. It may be an example from the Forgotten Realms, but it's an example by the book .

 

[Hawkeye]

The god of War in the Birthright campaign had Chaotic Good paladins.

Hawkeye

 

[Starman]

Starman, can you clarify? I see nothing in the RAW that requires a paladin to match the Law/Chaos alignment of her god.

I was thinking Clerics. Whoops.

I do think that Paladins of chaotic deites doesn't quite feel right. I think the two would clash a little.

Starman

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

As mentioned, it really does matter what the DM's take on alignment is. There have been plenty of previous boards that I've seen that give their opinions on alignment. While a person might be Chaotic Good in terms of society, he might be Lawful Good in terms of following his own personal code of ethics/conduct. In a certain sense/aspect, he is lawful good and in some ways would be able to take on the role of a paladin because he follows his own code very strictly.

But the paladin info is out there to be used. You've just gotta justify it (since most DMs seem to look somewhat doubtfully upon it).

 

[DMScott]

I do think that Paladins of chaotic deites doesn't quite feel right. I think the two would clash a little.

Eh, I dunno about that. A chaotic god can, by definition, do whatever they want, and if that means a CG deity would occasionally find an LG warrior-servant useful, then so be it. It'd be an interesting relationship, but they wouldn't have to clash.

Now, the Paladin and the priesthood, OTOH... that'd be some clashing. I think it'd be clashing in a good way (i.e. something that adds to the campaign subplots).

 

[Malimar]

"A plethora of paladins"

I know that they had an equivalent Champion for each alignment back in 2E. I think it was in DRAGON

Are you referring to the article in Dragon 106, "A Plethora of Paladins"?

This was one of favorite articles. The writer has a website at:

http://dndhero.dfxwebs.com/

The stats are in 1E, so you have to do a lot of modification, but the descriptions of different types of paladins can still be used. The chaotic paladins were the Garath (CG) and the Fantra (CN). The 1E stats are on the link above.

They would each receive different weapon proficiencies and gain spellcasting abilities at different levels.

I found them to be really fun alternative divine warriors.

- Malimar

 

[Felix]

I throw myself in with the "within one step of the god" crowd.

I say this because if you allow chaotic dieties to have paladins because they share the same Good ends, then the argument that immediately follows is that Lawful Evil dieties should be able to have paladins because they look to uphold the Law... and even then the paladin retains his anti-evil powers in the service of an evil deity because it makes him effective in fighting the neutral and chaotic evil, which lawful evil often fights. And I think that having a Paladin of Hextor is nonsense.

I happen to believe there's as much philosophical distance between Law and Chaos as there is between Good and Evil, and if you allow Paladins to bridge the L-C gap, then its easily argued that they should be able to bridge the G-E gap, and I don't think that's their purpose.

It's easy enough to rationalize for gameplay, but it makes the paladin much less special if he can work for whomever he pleases.

 

[Umbran]

II say this because if you allow chaotic dieties to have paladins because they share the same Good ends, then the argument that immediately follows is that Lawful Evil dieties should be able to have paladins because they look to uphold the Law...

Well, I think that doesn't work, because the paladin does not quite hold law and good in equal priority:

3.5e PHB, pg 44:
"While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consstently offends her moral code."

Good is a higher priority than law in choosing associates. I'd assume that your deity would be considered at least an "associate"

 

[Turjan]

Good is a higher priority than law in choosing associates. I'd assume that your deity would be considered at least an "associate"

The reason for this might be that you can always rationalize the chaotic behavior of a god away by assuming that the god follows a plan a mere mortal is not able to understand easily. It's much harder to rationalize evil behavior away.