Do Magic Item "Shops" wreck the spirit of D&D?

[S'mon]

No, not having a market for magic items wrecks the spirit of D&D because it hopelessly strains credulity. In the game, magic items are tools, and little more. This is not a new phenomenon - even back in Ye Olde Days of OD&D they were nothing more than very useful tools. The edict that they were not for sale, when you had PCs who sold excess magic items all the time (or at least who wanted to sell such items) simply made the game make little sense in regards to these items.

Well, yeah, fine to say roll on the DMG treasure tables once a month to see what items come on the market. Not fine to say that everything in the book under 100,000 gp is automatically available.

 

[Emirikol]

The only stuff I allow to be bought and sold anymore is potions. I've reduced the sale value of MI's to 1/10th of normal..it's a lower magic world anyways so it doesn't matter.

"Sure, you want 5 or 6 donkeys for that pretty sword, what did you call it? Vor-pallll? Whatever...I'll throw in my buck-toothed serving wench."
"Gee, thanks..how about a tank of ale too"
"Now, that's pushing it..how about as much ale as you can carry in your cupped hands?"
"DEAL"

jh

 

[el-remmen]

The "spirit of the game" is something that comes in as many varieties as there are gaming groups.

Sometimes that spirit includes magic shops, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Sketchpad]

I don't think so ... I use them all the time in my games Gives the players a place to buy and sell various items

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Well, they make it a VASTLY different game than the BECM or 2e that I played before. As DM I run worlds that wouldn't have them, and as a player I generally avoid using them even if they exist.

There's a great deal of logic lacking in the demographics and community wealth guidelines. For example, you need a 12th-level caster with the right feat to make a Ring of Protection +1. Large towns are not expected to have such casters. Yet, EVERY large town is expected to have Rings of Protection +1 available for sale.

They also make the "recommended wealth by level" guidelines rather useless. Consider 4 PCs who each find 10,000 gp worth of magic items that are not specifically optimized to their builds.

PC #1 is old-school. He makes the best use of them he can, or gives them to cohorts or followers. Buying and selling magic items is not the stuff of heroic adventure.

PC #2 works under the 3e default assumptions. He sells these things for one-half their value and buys 5,000 of items tailored for him.

PC #3 somehow sells the items at full price and buys 10,000 gp of items tailored to his needs.

PC #4 is rather self-reliant. He sells the items for 5,000 gp, invests 400 XP, and crafts 10,000 gp of items tailored for him.

Should the DM change the allocation of treasure among these PCs? Do the wealth by level guidelines recognize that 10,000 of customized and chosen items are far more valuable than 10,000 of random magic items? Do they recognize that a PC with crafting feats may have more GP value in gear at the cost of those feats?

 

[Deekin]

Cannith run magic items shops don't ruin feel of Eberron. Granted, the stuff that they have will be limited based on the highest level artificer present, and the GP limit of the community that it is in. Granted, in Sharn, you can pretty much buy scrolls of raise dead and such, but they probably will only have a few in stock. You can always have them make the item, but that takes time.

 

[Celebrim]

Not this topic again...

Magic Item Shops do not wreck the spirit of D&D, but they do wreck the spirit of a large percentage of D&D settings including all of those that are loosely based on medieval/early modern culture, and all of those which lean toward heroic high fantasy, and all of those which lean toward Heroic Age pre-history.

I have in my campaign allowed potions and scrolls to be purchased in small amounts from alchemists, churches, and wizards but IMO if you go much beyond that magic items cease to be magical and wonderous, and players cease to feel like they've accomplished something important when finding a powerful magical treasure.

 

[Celebrim]

Cannith run magic items shops don't ruin feel of Eberron.

And a I agree, but the setting of Eberron is Edwardian in inspiration and has magic in the role of the technology explosion of the late 19th/early 20th century, which makes the setting a far cry from the high fantasy/quasi-medieval setting most people associate with D&D.

 

[Jack of Shadows]

Why bother to "hand out" magic items in Dungeons if PC's can just buy whatever they want?

jh

My group uses an equal value treasure share method. We take all the treasure we've found, add up all of it's sale value (remember magic items sell for half their value) and then divide that number by the number of PC's. Each PC now has a pool of funds which they can use to buy items from the treasure list or to spend on other items as they wish. The advantage is that any items in the treasure list are only going to cost the character their value as treasure which is half their market value. This makes found items much more valuable as you essentially acquire them for a considerabe discount. It also allows for PC's who find nothing of use in the list to acquire things that they want to improve their character.

We've found this really works well for us and keeps us compatible with the 3.5 expectations. I think the view presented in the MIC is sound in that given the amount of specialization that characters can now acomplish it just doesn't make sense to rely on random treasure allotments. Players with strong character concepts are going to feel cheated. I'm of the school that the more control you give a player over their character's evolution the happier that player is going to be.

Now some GM's are going to counter that they always consider their player's needs when alloting treasure. That's fine but how is that any different? It still takes away from the randomness of magical treasure and creates an environment where the GM decides what is best for the player's character. I consider this a bad idea generally as it will almost always leads to resentment and reduces the investment the player has in the game.

Jack

 

[Corsair]

Assuming there is anyone to act as a middle man, people with money and people with stuff they are willing to sell will find each other eventually. Even if the only people interested in magic items are adventurers and the richest nobles, they will find a way to get rid of what they don't need, and in return get something they do need.

To tell a player "No, no one is interested in buying that magic sword you found" is just nonsensical. Clearly if the players are willing to buy and sell items, other adventurers would be as well.

The market may be small, but unless you're running a ridiculously low magic game, or one where adventurers and their ilk are extremely rare, the market should exist.