Do paladins work in most games?

[Calico_Jack73]

I think the Paladin problem is one of a misconception of the Paladin class. Paladins are NOT knights though they are ofter construed as such. They don't necessarily have to abide by all the tenets of an established religion. They are the hand picked champions of a god. The only authority they need recognize is the god they serve. Another problem is that people also don't understand the Lawful side of a Paladin's alignment. Most people believe that Lawful means "Law Abiding" when it couldn't be further from the truth. Alignment INHO more descibes a PC's personality. Lawful means that a PC prefers an orderly way to do things. A Lawful PC isn't one to go into a situation and just let what happens happen. A Lawful PC may break laws frequently but he'll be the jewel thief who scouts out the jewelry store to find out what defenses it has. He'll also track the owner's schedule to pick the opportune time to break in. He'll go in with a plan rather than deal with things as they come. So, a Lawful Good Paladin is simply a good character who goes in with a plan. He may or may not recognise the rules of the land as binding since he answers to the will of his god above all. In the Forgotten Realms a Paladin of Tyr may decide that he has the authority to judge an evildoer and dispence justice on the spot regardless of the local authority. In some realms that may make the Paladin a criminal. I believe the relationship a Paladin shares with his god is very personal. You can't look at a warrior and say "Hey, he looks like a Paladin!". There is no reason a Paladin of Tyr would look anything different than some Fighter who simply venerates Tyr as a patron diety. Unless the god has given the priesthood some sign an established religion most likely won't recognize a warrior as a Paladin. Certainly you can have that some Paladins join up with their religious orders as Knights Templar but that is certainly only an option, not a rule. In my campaign I also make Paladins VERY rare. When one is officially recognized by a priesthood it is cause for great celebration and ceremony.

 

[Arnwyn]

I think the Paladin problem is one of a misconception of the Paladin class. Paladins are NOT knights though they are ofter construed as such. They don't necessarily have to abide by all the tenets of an established religion. They are the hand picked champions of a god.

I find it interesting that you begin talking about "misconceptions of the class", and then go on to say that "they are the hand picked champions of a god". Especially when PHB paladins don't even need a god.

Misconceptions, indeed.

(I do agree with you, though, that they do not necessarily have to abide by all the tenets of an established religion.)

 

[Utrecht]

As been mentioned before, it is not being a Paladin that makes them unplayable - it is the extremist nature in which most Paladins are played.

In any real-life group setting, a certain amount of flexability is needed - and this is no different for a group of characters. In real-life "average" people do not hang out with the extremists - the extremist tend to congregate together. Thus, in any "realistic" group dynamic, you have each PC making compromises - and as long as those compromises do not contradict the Paladin code which as I understand it is a PERSONAL CODE and not a PARTY CODE - the Paladin should be fine.

 

[Nightfall]

Alright already gave my opinion but I think I will make a point here:

IMC, (Scarred Lands obviously) I have two very clashing figures. One of Silas of Madriel, the Topaz Knight and that of Khamut, the Khanughasu, the "chosen" of his people (well his gnoll tribesman.) Both have strong opinions but are good at heart. However one lives by his own moral code. The other by the conduct and ideals of his goddess toughened to fight evil and be valiant in all things. Obviously this leads some clashes. One of the more recent discussions is concerning the treatment of prisoners. Gnolls, being forever the subject of slaves along with many other humaniod populations, believe in keeping themselves and others free. Thus they never take prisoners. So when a battered and worn spider eyes goblin approached the camp after a strange raid done by mantacori, manticores and lamias, they interrogated him and then Khamut killed him. Obviously this lead some problems, but to me, Silas showed remarkable restraint in not only not attacking but also defending the goblin's right to live. (Course he didn't expect it and the goblin died anyway.) Anyway to me this is what being a paladin in less than easy world such as the Scarred Lands is about. I don't foresee a fight but I do see this coming to ahead.

 

[woodelf]

I like Paladins.

IMC, I separate alignment into Conduct and Sponsorship. A Sponsor is someone who gives you power, like a Cleric's God or a Cultist's Demon. Conduct is what you do -- it has no effect on your alignment descriptor, but it may tick off your Sponsor (if you have one).

In my current game, a Paladin has participated in a deal with a Night Hag to get information about an upcoming assault on a major city by Demons. The Night Hag wanted to make some further deals, to mutual profit, but the Paladin refused to participate.

To his God, he's done Good. He saved a city and did not give in to temptation.

I'm not going to screw with him for having not killed the Night Hag. However, she (and any other peaceful, [Evil] NPC) will continue to try to tempt him -- and the rest of the party -- into [Evil] actions.

-- N

Hmmm... i like the basic idea, but isn't it sort of backwards? I mean, if i read you right, someone who worships The God Of All Things Good and Happy and eats babies is Good, if in deep trouble, while the guy who sells her soul to a demon to get Phenomenal Cosmic Power, and then uses that power to bring world peace, end disease and suffering, make everyone happy, and guarantee that the ice cream shop has your favorite flavor when you visit is Evil (and probably *also* in a lot of trouble). That doesn't seem right. Seems to me you'd want the Conduct part to be what determines alignment. Not only for logical reasons (as i've mentioned above), but for narrative reasons: it then becomes possible to have the misguided sole, who is attempting to do good, and registers as "Good" to detect alignment-type spells, but who is actually fulfilling the secret dastardly plans of a demon (whom the pour sap thinks is an angel).

Do i make sense? Have i misunderstood what you're doing?