Do TTRPGs Need to "Modernize?"

[GMMichael]

10. They don't outstay their welcome. They have a definitive end that can be predicted. This builds tension and excitement.
9. Every turn is fun. You don't get a dead turn spent just rolling to move and not getting to a destination. All players are equal (same number of actions). There's always something worth doing. You don't have skipped turns (no "Go to Jail" cards.)
8. No player elimination in modern boardgames.
7. Scores are less varied. Objectives can be hidden and not revealed until the end. Scores are often not tallied until the end, so a player doesn't sit around for the whole game feeling like a loser.
6. Different set-ups mean there are unique dynamics to change strategies. It's not always the same game (i.e. chess).
5. Players have agency. Failure isn't controlled by luck.
4. When luck is used, you roll (or draw cards) before deciding what action to take.
3. Boardgames used to be intended for children or were based on war/fighting. There is more working together and less conflict now.
2. Games are less aggressive as a result. You aren't required to bankrupt or wipe out your opponents. They can be competitive without being aggressive.
1. There are many options. . .

I don't know. I'm just sort of rambling here. Do you think RPGs need to modernize like we've seen in the boardgame hobby?

DRPGs have modernized. There's room for even more, but I don't think it's necessary. They're online, on virtual table tops, blended with CRPGs, cooperative, single -player, designed solely for online use. They share GM responsibilities, save the GM from rolling, have GM intrusions, metacurrency, X cards, and moves.

D&D took note, and fumbled, with 4th edition, and it's belatedly attempting to modernize with the new edition.

It's the boardgames that are playing catch up, or at least co-evolving with DRPGs and CRPGs.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Modernization can help produce great games... like the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG!

 

[overgeeked]

Having watched the video a few things stand out. The modern trend in RPGs is to add more randomness, not remove it as per the suggestions in the video. Old-school games were more reliant on the referee making calls than calling for the players to make rolls. Bringing that back would definitely reduce the randomness. Also, to the roll first then decide what you’re doing comment, there are a few RPGs that do that. The most commonly known is 7th Sea 2E.

Really interesting video. Thanks for posting it OP.

 

[Retreater]

Modernization can help produce great games... like the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG!

Really? I don't think of DCC as modern at all. Not a dig against it ... I just think of it more old fashioned and "back to basics."
The charts and randomization is sort of an old school design that takes away player agency. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Really? I don't think of DCC as modern at all. Not a dig against it ... I just think of it more old fashioned and "back to basics."
The charts and randomization is sort of an old school design that takes away player agency. Unless I'm missing something.

Now I have to explain the joke!

I consider it modern because it understands how it's rules generates a particular play experience, and in how it uses those rules to create that experience.

 

[overgeeked]

The charts and randomization is sort of an old school design that takes away player agency.

I’m not sure how those are connected. Random rolls don’t reduce player agency. You’re not rolling to see how far you move, like in Clue. You’re rolling to hit, just like most RPGs. RPGs don’t lack agency simply because you roll to hit. If anything, the randomness allows for more player agency because the reliance on dice all but prevents the Judge from railroading, which is the main reason players lack agency in RPGs. Th Judge wants this fight to be tough but the wizard spellburns and rolls 30+ on their spell check, disintegrates the bad guy on round one, and blots out the sun.

The charts mostly add flavor to the random events. Like crit charts or fumble charts.

Though it’s definitely more an old-school design generally, it has some wonderfully modern elements like Mighty Deeds, streamlined XP, focused game play, explicitly narrative elements like Quest For It, and loads of redundancy to keep players actually playing even if their PC dies. Things like rolling the body and promoting hirelings to PC status, even if temporarily.

 

[Retreater]

I’m not sure how those are connected. Random rolls don’t reduce player agency. You’re not rolling to see how far you move, like in Clue. You’re rolling to hit, just like most RPGs. RPGs don’t lack agency simply because you roll to hit. If anything, the randomness allows for more player agency because the reliance on dice all but prevents the Judge from railroading, which is the main reason players lack agency in RPGs. Th Judge wants this fight to be tough but the wizard spellburns and rolls 30+ on their spell check, disintegrates the bad guy on round one, and blots out the sun.

I guess it depends on how the charts are used and if the player can make reasonable decisions to predict their actions.
For example ...
"I cast a spell." (Fine)
"I have to roll to cast a spell. It's 3rd level so that means I have a 50/50 chance to cast it." (Also fine)
"I have cast the spell. It does 6-36 points of damage, so I need to roll 6d6." (Fine too)
"I have cast the spell. Now I roll on a random chart. There are 24 options, each of which is equally weighted on a d24 roll. I can either do 6-36 points of damage or my character can instantly dissolve into goo." (Not fine.)
My experience with DCC has been the last example listed as all other players and the GM have lulz around the table and tell you to buzz off when your character melts because you rolled a 24.
The randomization that puts the importance on die rolls and luck over player skill and character ability is the opposite of player agency.
(For more about why I dislike DCC, here's a thread about my specific experience - and unfortunately reinforced by more examples more recently. https://www.enworld.org/threads/dcc-level-0-character-funnel-is-a-bad-concept.686990/ But this is taking us wildly off course.)

 

[overgeeked]

"I have cast the spell. Now I roll on a random chart. There are 24 options, each of which is equally weighted on a d24 roll. I can either do 6-36 points of damage or my character can instantly dissolve into goo." (Not fine.)

Good thing that's simply not how DCC RPG works.

My experience with DCC has been the last example listed as all other players and the GM have lulz around the table and tell you to buzz off when your character melts because you rolled a 24.

That's 100% the referee and other players' fault. That's not how the game is supposed to work.

The randomization that puts the importance on die rolls and luck over player skill and character ability is the opposite of player agency.

Again, good thing DCC RPG doesn't work like that. It places player skill over everything else. Next up is character ability and that's where the randomness of the dice comes in.

An analogy would be you're complaining about how a movie is in black and white when it's actually in color but you happened to watch it on a black and white TV.

I remember having this conversation with you a dozen or so times. You had an absolute crap experience with a terrible referee and you blame the game as a whole. I get it. Sorry you had a bad experience, but you're incorrect about how DCC RPG works on a fundamental level.

 

[Kickero]

RPGs haven't had the same divide between mass market games and hobby games that the board games market has. D&D is the closest thing we have to a mass market RPG, and it's been re-designed repeatedly by game design professionals. Compare that to something like Monopoly, which 1) massively outsells hobby board games, 2) uses the same rules as it did during the Great Depression, 3) and is regarded by almost all hobby gamers as bad and boring.

 

[MGibster]

You can look over the last 50 years of table top role playing games and see that they have continued to evolve over the years. Do TTPRGs need to modernize? Well, yeah, but they've always been in the process of modernizing.