Do you allow Acrobatics and Athletics to be used interchangeably?

[5ekyu]

Do you allow to a certain degree and in some cases Acrobatics and Athletics to be used interchangeably?

Climbing for example seems to be either Athletic and Strength-based or Acrobatic and Dexterity-based. A squirrel is not strong, but it climbs with the greatest of ease. A circus acrobat comes to mind as well.

I understand that for game balance, Dexterity does not need to be more powerful than it already is, but...

I would not allow acro climb as s rule.

First there is iirc class ability for thief that allows it.

Second the native climbing ability done creature get is often represented with climbing speed - claws feature

Third I do not like blurring the line between attributes any more than happens.

 

[MarkB]

I think part of the issue is that Acrobatics tends to sound like a very good skill for dextrous characters, whose players imagine them performing all sorts of acrobatic bounds and tumbles, but in actual play it tends to have far fewer applications than expected. Anything involving climbing or jumping is purely Athletics, and anything which involves maintaining balance in the face of adversity is as likely to be a Dexterity saving throw as an Acrobatics check.

I actually really like the idea of dropping Acrobatics entirely, and allowing Athletics to be used as a Strength or Dexterity skill as appropriate.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think part of the issue is that Acrobatics tends to sound like a very good skill for dextrous characters, whose players imagine them performing all sorts of acrobatic bounds and tumbles, but in actual play it tends to have far fewer applications than expected. Anything involving climbing or jumping is purely Athletics, and anything which involves maintaining balance in the face of adversity is as likely to be a Dexterity saving throw as an Acrobatics check.

I actually really like the idea of dropping Acrobatics entirely, and allowing Athletics to be used as a Strength or Dexterity skill as appropriate.

Many people say Str is useless because there is only one skill that depends on it. The opposite is actually true. Athletic ia a powerful feat which cam be applied in many situations.
Dex skills are more splitted up. Acrobatics gets you past an opponent and allows to run over the rooftop. It might also get you up if it involves minor jumps or changes of direction. I'd also allow you to get down a roof fast without hurring yourself.

Don't make dexterity better as it already is.
Actually I would allow you to use acrobatics more freely when not having any armor or bulk on your body.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Sometimes. If I throw in an open-ended skill challenge (i.e. one that the PCs decide how they tackle it or react to), sure, if it’s applicable, they can use either. If I call for an athletics check specifically, then you need to use athletics.

 

[cmad1977]

I mean... occasionally where applicable.

 

[Gradine]

So most of the time I use the variant rule in which skill checks aren't necessarily bound by Ability Score... but I feel like "bound by Ability Score" is sort of the delineating factor of Athletics and Acrobatics. Is the character performing a feat of full-body physical ability? Then it's probably either Athletics or Acrobatics. Does it depend on Strength? Then it's Athletics. Does it depend on Dexterity? Then it's Acrobatics.

I could see edge cases where a Constitution (Athletics) check might be warranted (the old Endurance skill as an example) but no, the line between Athletics and Acrobatics is pretty clear in my mind.

 

[Blue]

Interchangeable, no. But there are different actions with similar outcomes. For example, climbing down a steep slope and tumbling down a steep slope might both avoid falling damage, but they are different actions and would use the different skills.

Even the squirrel is using STR to climb - it just has such a low body weight that the DC would be ridiculously low (-20?). Or more likely an auto-success that doesn't require a roll for anything normal. Well, it's actually all sidestepped by the squirrel having a climb speed.

Personally, I think the designers missed a trick though in not making the a single skill that sometimes triggered off STR and sometimes off DEX. But that's a different discussion.

 

[iserith]

Out of curiosity, how often are you guys asking for Strength (Athletics) checks to climb anyway? That's pretty rare in my games. Only occasionally do I establish that there is a complication that calls for an ability check to climb (slippery, no handholds, etc.). Normally it's just half your speed, no roll.

 

[MiraMels]

Oh man, the number of times someone with an 8 strength has asked me if they could climb up a cliff with Dexterity (acrobatics)...

I do pretty rigidly keep difficult situations encountered while climbing, jumping, swimming solely within the purview of Athletics, but since I do Acrobatics so rarely comes up. I'm always on the lookout for more things that i can handle with acrobatics.

 

[BookBarbarian]

No. If I determine a Strength (Athletics) check is called for then that's the check. If I determine a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check is called for then that is the check.

It's hard for me to imagine an approach that would equally call for one or the other.

Out of curiosity, how often are you guys asking for Strength (Athletics) checks to climb anyway? That's pretty rare in my games. Only occasionally do I establish that there is a complication that calls for an ability check to climb (slippery, no handholds, etc.). Normally it's just half your speed, no roll.

My current DM called for DC 10 Strength (Athletics) checks to get up to ledges from where goblins were shooting at us. I may not have called for the same check, but in combat and under fire I think it was reasonable.

Still my Barbarian just threw Javelins at those Goblins.