D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Scott Christian]

Can they? I suppose. Is it going to make any sense, be helpful at all? No.. Is it going to start being a bit stupid when everyone in the party just happens to get so lucky? Yes, I think so. Let's say your characters have backgrounds criminal, noble, folk hero, gladiator, sage, sailor. Each one has a background feature that requires that they be recognized and given special treatment.

Except they're in Barovia, a strange land cut off from the normal world for centuries with no contact. A big part of the module is that the entire place is a mystery and they're fish out of water. How often can they "just happen to stumble across" people that know who they are? That sage is supposed to know who to contact to find info or where to go, but you know no one here and no one back home has ever heard of this place. The poor sailor of course is just completely SOL unless you redraw the map and add an ocean.

A bit of hyperbole here. Why would everyone take a background that is difficult, especially after a session zero where you explained to them - this is Barovia, you will be a fish out of water. So you better take something generic for it to work.
And to be fair, Ravenloft is a bit of anomaly. Avernus is as well. But I am not going to say those backgrounds can't be used or beneficial. Again, how hard do you want to work in order to make it feel natural to the story. You may even have to rewrite the background feature.

I like the idea of backgrounds and mechanically the additional proficiencies are useful and a good idea. But much like traits, bonds, ideals, flaws I just don't really see them widely used. The earlier background features are just too specific to be broadly used if in-world logic matters to the group. There's no innate magic to the older background features, but trying to make them work when it makes no sense to the scenario makes them feel like they are.

Well, you know I am a huge fan of in-world logic. It matters a lot - as a DM. As a player, there is no stopping the juggernaut that is, D&D. It is a mixed-up mesh of Marvel meets Monsters meets Minecraft meets Mad Max. It is beyond silly, and I have given up trying to be happy as a player who searches for a consistent world. As a DM, I can pull it off, no problem. But as a player playing 5e with different groups, forget about it. That's why I say any background can work because most settings are not as defined as Barovia or your home setting. And that is why the DM should just be allowed to say no - to any request by the players. The setting might dictate such a response. But if you don't have that setting mapped out or the adventure doesn't pigeon-hole you somewhere, anything in D&D can work.

 

[Scott Christian]

The background feature talks about the presence of those houses in the world.

No, it doesn't! It talks about their presence in Eberron. I am reading it right now. Again, this is one of those takes where something is taken so out of context because they didn't read the book. The houses are in context of the book, which is titled - Eberron.

 

[Oofta]

A bit of hyperbole here. Why would everyone take a background that is difficult, especially after a session zero where you explained to them - this is Barovia, you will be a fish out of water. So you better take something generic for it to work.
And to be fair, Ravenloft is a bit of anomaly. Avernus is as well. But I am not going to say those backgrounds can't be used or beneficial. Again, how hard do you want to work in order to make it feel natural to the story. You may even have to rewrite the background feature.

Well, you know I am a huge fan of in-world logic. It matters a lot - as a DM. As a player, there is no stopping the juggernaut that is, D&D. It is a mixed-up mesh of Marvel meets Monsters meets Minecraft meets Mad Max. It is beyond silly, and I have given up trying to be happy as a player who searches for a consistent world. As a DM, I can pull it off, no problem. But as a player playing 5e with different groups, forget about it. That's why I say any background can work because most settings are not as defined as Barovia or your home setting. And that is why the DM should just be allowed to say no - to any request by the players. The setting might dictate such a response. But if you don't have that setting mapped out or the adventure doesn't pigeon-hole you somewhere, anything in D&D can work.

Pretty much all of the early backgrounds are based on reputation, people or what you know. Once you're outside the PC's sphere of influence they stop making sense. Thing is the background features are rarely useful even in a standard game and, when they are, they're basically fluff. If the PCs need to have an audience with a noble to move the plot forward, it will happen whether or not someone has the noble background. Free passage on a ship because you have a sailor in the group? I don't remember a single instance in any edition, any campaign, where paying for ship passage ever came up.

So rather than twist world building logic in knots, I'll just take background into consideration and find some other way to make it useful. Occasional advantage on a check, knowledge pertinent to the background automatically gained and so on. Besides, I don't remember the last time anyone brought up their background feature, people just don't care. Well, except for the guy who thought he should have a criminal contact when they were halfway across the world.

 

[Faolyn]

Sage knows people or resources. The others have advantages because people know who they are. As far as I know, there is only one town near the lake, much less any ports and it requires someone who knows no one to just run into an old sailing buddy. I'm not even going to say what I think about some people being somehow special solely because of who their parents were.

The only thing stopping the DM from making this work is that they don't treat background features as magic and they want their world to have logical consistency. That doesn't mean there can't be other benefits, it's just not going to be the background feature as written if it's illogical.

It's not magic to say that sages can recognize other intelligent people or if a source is legitimate or not, or that a sailors might be more willing to befriend another sailor. Nor is it magic to look at the map and says "wow, this place doesn't suit my needs" and then rewrite it so it does.

Edit: Here's the sailor background feature: "When you need to, you can secure free passage on a sailing ship for yourself and your adventuring companions. You might sail on the ship you served on, or another ship you have good relations with (perhaps one captained by a former crewmate). Because you're calling in a favor, you can't be certain of a schedule or route that will meet your every need. Your Dungeon Master will determine how long it takes to get where you need to go. In return for your free passage, you and your companions are expected to assist the crew during the voyage."

There's nothing here that says you have to run into an old sailing buddy--just that the PC can get free passage. Come up with a reason why the PC can get free passage without it being an old buddy. Let them notice a flaw on the ship that the captain hasn't noticed yet, and the captain is grateful enough to grant free passage. Or the first mate saw the PCs killing a horrible monster and realizes they'd be good security on the ship and they know there's going to be more monsters en route.

 

[Faolyn]

I agree, which is why I was ok with the Noble in Barovia, I might not be ok with them somewhere else, but by and large they have a good chance, if only because the people around them defer to them, so any observer can see they are important (might not work with a group of adventurers though, much better for a noble and their entourage)


um, no, there is precedent to see that someone has been through a lot. The issue for the Sage also was not recognition but a simple lack of libraries.

Here's the sage's feature: "When you attempt to learn or recall a piece of lore, if you do not know that information, you often know where and from whom you can obtain it. Usually, this information comes from a library, scriptorium, university, or a sage or other learned person or creature. Your DM might rule that the knowledge you seek is secreted away in an almost inaccessible place, or that it simply cannot be found. Unearthing the deepest secrets of the multiverse can require an adventure or even a whole campaign."

OK, so they won't know about local libraries or sages or whatever. This is where you, the DM, either have to know your older Ravenloft lore (i.e., the presence of multiple occult bookshops in Vallaki) or make stuff up (stick a library in one of the towns) or have them meet a learned NPC. Even if it's an NPC you have to make up.

Player: OK, I missed my roll, but I should know where to find the info I need.

DM: You don't recall seeing any libraries, but there was a bookshop a few streets back. Maybe the people there might have an idea of what you're looking for. And then the bookseller can recommend a book, or talk about a sage that they know who can give them the answer.

The Folk Hero stands no chance, no one will recognize them, and if I use Robin Hood as an example then he does not get recognized by everyone but can blend into crowds just fine… the Folk Hero gets recognized by the folk they helped / in the area they are active in, not a continent over and certainly not on another plane.

Here's the folk hero background: "Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you."

I don't see anything about being recognized as a hero, or even as anything other than a normal commoner. So the only way this background doesn't work is if your folk hero PC is wandering around in noble clothing or clearly dangerous.

The thief can find a guild, no problem there, but that does not mean they have access to the contact and network the feature describes, so they will have to make do with what the local guild can provide (and until they have proven themselves that will be less than the established network…)

And this is where you introduce an NPC that can become their new contact. And then it's up to the player to RP that out.

I guess what this shows more than anything else is why these features were a bad idea, at least as written

Not really, since it seems to require very little work outside of good improv skills to actually make the PC's backgrounds workable.

 

[Scott Christian]

So rather than twist world building logic in knots, I'll just take background into consideration and find some other way to make it useful.

We agree. I just feel like you and others are saying this sometimes can't happen, and it is then that I disagree.

 

[tetrasodium]

No, it doesn't! It talks about their presence in Eberron. I am reading it right now. Again, this is one of those takes where something is taken so out of context because they didn't read the book. The houses are in context of the book, which is titled - Eberron.

The only real difference between the two books is that FRCS2 was published under ISBN9780786965601 rather than including the words Forgotten Realms Toril -OR- Ravenloft on the cover but you had no issue with asserting that a ravenloft GM should adjust the setting for that FR-bound background earlier. AlsoI don't think you are "reading it right now" because it says this

Spoiler

"Feature: House Connections
As an agent of your house, you can always get food and lodging for yourself and your friends at a house enclave."

Are you telling me that the earlier j-random criminal outfit has infiltrated & subverted ravenloft to the degree that it can get messages along with a full support network in & out for a player with the criminal background to make use of that background feature but FR is somehow shielded from similar setting pollution because Eberron's megacorp analogs lack the capabilities of some criminal outfit from FR?

 

[mamba]

No objections to the Sage....

Here's the folk hero background: "Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you."

I don't see anything about being recognized as a hero, or even as anything other than a normal commoner.

the 'shield from the law' part means they need to recognize the Folk Hero in some way to me. That is not something they do for everyone, or it would not be needed as a feature.

And this is where you introduce an NPC that can become their new contact. And then it's up to the player to RP that out.

sure, I already said they can find a thieves guild, but they won't immediately have full access, they first have to 'work their way up', so what they can get that way is more limited than their old trusted contact and network

 

[SkidAce]

The Folk Hero stands no chance, no one will recognize them, and if I use Robin Hood as an example then he does not get recognized by everyone but can blend into crowds just fine… the Folk Hero gets recognized by the folk they helped / in the area they are active in, not a continent over and certainly not on another plane.

...

I guess what this shows more than anything else is why these features were a bad idea, at least as written

They are a fine idea as written, in my opinion.

We have a Folk Hero rakasta in our campaign. He was in a city in a different country and I told him "during the confrontation with the city watch, the populace recognized your expressions and actions as inspiring, a person on their side. You can use your Folk Hero background as leverage to investigate with the peasants what may have happened here..."

We like the open-endedness of the background, its a descriptor.

But then again, I let the fighter walk into a Warrior Guild or Blacksmith and have an edge on social interactions from the sheer fact of their class, and that certainly not a written rule. And it doesn't need to be mechanically laid out.

 

[SkidAce]

... Free passage on a ship because you have a sailor in the group? I don't remember a single instance in any edition, any campaign, where paying for ship passage ever came up....

So rather than twist world building logic in knots, I'll just take background into consideration and find some other way to make it useful. Occasional advantage on a check, knowledge pertinent to the background automatically gained and so on. ...

1st part: this is where the fact that folks play different gets high lighted. My group went from ship to ship checking the fares versus the speed of the ship (they shoulda been checking the reputation of the cres, but hey that on them hehe.)

2nd part: 100% agreed.