D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[CapnZapp]

I think the poll is very very heavily skewed towards those not upgrading.

I would be very surprised indeed if the numbers after say two years aren't more like 90% upgrading 10% not.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If the complaint is the direction of the game then saying ‘just don’t use an offending option’ is a non-answer.

It works for spells!

 

[FrogReaver]

It works for spells!

?

 

[Hussar]

I can get behind this analysis - but as you note that makes 4e lack of character builder not really like lack of 1 for 3/3.5e character builder at all


so what are the non-edition war, valid reasons someone can cite for not liking 4e. Can we get a list?

What does the Battlemaster have that’s like 4e’s come and get it?

Why do you need a reason? Just say it’s not for you. Poof done. Or, and I’m just spitballing here, don’t immediately rush to tell everyone how 4e is terrible if someone in passing says something they happen to like about 4e?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think the poll is very very heavily skewed towards those not upgrading.

I would be very surprised indeed if the numbers after say two years aren't more like 90% upgrading 10% not.

I think this is the nature of this forum. Here are quite some people who more or less abandoned 5e. Those won't adapt the new rules. Then there are a lot of people who don't need to adopt those rules, because they make their own or found a different representation of the rules they like more than core 5e.
And then there are people who are in a campaign or otherwise don't feel any pressure to convert. I think 55% here is a good indicator WotC will do fine.

 

[Hussar]

I have played 4e. And I felt that I needed the character builder more than in any other editon.
So please stop patronizing me. That is quite rude.
I speak from experience, not making something up. If you felt differently, more power to you.

Sorry. Didn’t mean to be patronizing. Wasn’t my intention.

But as someone who played both with and without the CB, I find declarations that it was “impossible “ to play 4e without the CB to be very overblown.

And to add to the list of things that I have no problem with people not liking 4e for:

1. Presentation. Yup that’s a biggie. That includes the stuff mentioned before like terminology but also stuff like the adventure delve format. As well as loads of other elements.

2. Publication pace. Yikes.

3. Marketing. Yeah this was just bad.

4. Proliferation of interrupt effects which ground the game to a halt in play.

5. Proliferation of damage types which makes the game overly complicated.

6. Spectacular levels of bloat. We probably didn’t need something like forty distinct classes in what, three years?

7. Shockingly poorly written adventures. Goes back to presentation.

That would be most of my list.

What’s generally just edition warring?

1. Meme style glib comments. Anything ending in “y” generally. Samey, video gamey, etc.

2. Anything to do with sense of wonder.

3. Anything to do with “my verisimilitude “

4. Anything to do with cognitive dissonance.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Having an opinion about 4e is fine. Not liking 4e is fine. Continuing to bang the edition war drum by pointing to stuff that is so easily discounted is not fine. Again, we're back to talking about Come and Get It and 4e=WOW. I mean, seriously? Really? These are so easily shown to be wrong.

And the worst part is, EVERY SINGLE THING that people point to as being totally unacceptable in 4e IS IN 5E. You don't like Come and Get it because it makes the game too video gamey? What, does no one play a Battlemaster in your game? No one plays a Mastermind rogue? There's all sorts of the same sort of thing that was "totally unacceptable" in 4e that appears in 5e. But, because it's worded differently, presented differnetly, and done under the radar - it's perfectly fine.

Oh sorry. The last parts were also adressed at me? I don't think so, because there are a lot of things I never said nor meant.

I know tgere are a lot of 4e things in 5e and you know what, they are well implemented there. I could accept way more 4e in it. If you track my history you would see I have said a lot of positive things about 4e and defended it a lot. The edition war is over. Lets just be allowed to say what was good and what not. And I never played WOW so I can't say how much WOW was in 4e.

Fact is: the way the rules are structured ran contrary to how we play D&D. 4e was mechanics first, story second. 5e is different. Back to the background mechanics where all that started: having to bend the story for mechanics is not something I want to do anymore.

Having story tokens or something like that would be cool however. Advantage to background related things, fine. But my experience with 5e backgrounds as is: either a forgotten feature. Or a feature DM's reject, because it disrupts the story instead of helping to tell it. If they help, they were often not needed at all, as anyone could have gotten a similar benefit by roleplaying instead of insisting that as a sailor they get free passage or as a commoner you can allways find a friendly coffinmaker...

 

[Hussar]

Naw. Just addressed to the room in general.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sorry. Didn’t mean to be patronizing. Wasn’t my intention.

But as someone who played both with and without the CB, I find declarations that it was “impossible “ to play 4e without the CB to be very overblown.

And to add to the list of things that I have no problem with people not liking 4e for:

1. Presentation. Yup that’s a biggie. That includes the stuff mentioned before like terminology but also stuff like the adventure delve format. As well as loads of other elements.

I did like the delve format at first, because the encounters were engaging. Then I noticed that it does not help tell the story.
Some 5e adventures are not much better to be honest.

2. Publication pace. Yikes.

Agreed.

3. Marketing. Yeah this was just bad.

Agreed. And on top of that: a ton of errors in the core books. And I remember one developer opening the monster book to showcase a brute, finding a giant and wondering why their thrown weapon does more damage than their melee one.

4. Proliferation of interrupt effects which ground the game to a halt in play.

Agreed. Also shiting, pushing, pulling, sliding that made battlemaps mandatory.

5. Proliferation of damage types which makes the game overly complicated.

I liked those.

6. Spectacular levels of bloat. We probably didn’t need something like forty distinct classes in what, three years?

And feats.

7. Shockingly poorly written adventures. Goes back to presentation.

Some were quite ok. I really liked the solo adventure in dragon. And the chaos sacr ones.

That would be most of my list.

What’s generally just edition warring?

1. Meme style glib comments. Anything ending in “y” generally. Samey, video gamey, etc.

Did nit say that. Still it was just thinking: when to use my powers instead of playing a character.

2. Anything to do with sense of wonder.

Yes. That was bollocks.

3. Anything to do with “my verisimilitude “

Also not my problem most of the time. It was just inconvenient to have some powers make sense some time. Many complaints however were not justified.

4. Anything to do with cognitive dissonance.

Isn't that the same as versimilitude?

Or is it the hp != meat. Actually that made way more sense than anything before and I am glad 5e kept this.

4e was a great evolution of the game. Without it 5e would be totally different. But it was sadly too focused on cool encounters instead of cool stories.

 

[Hussar]

Some were quite ok. I really liked the solo adventure in dragon. And the chaos sacr ones.

Heh. I updated Chaos Scar for 5e and ran it. That was a really fun series of adventures and you can pretty much run it almost as written in 5e. Yup, those were great.

Or is it the hp != meat. Actually that made way more sense than anything before and I am glad 5e kept this.

Pretty much this. Or the bag full of other stuff that got lumped into it, like Come and Get It. All that stuff that people talked about not being able to make any sense of during the game - fore example but not limited to: encounter powers, minions, how some of the powers worked. I don't actually remember all of them anymore because it was largely so much complete and utter bollocks. It was people desperately trying to "prove" that 4e was inferior.

Which makes 5e incredibly ironic since virtually everything (barring minions) that people claimed was bad in 4e became part of 5e and suddenly became good.