D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[tetrasodium]

No. When we are talking about FR, the DM has the final say. When we are talking about any other locale, the DM has the final say. There is no contradiction in my statement.

The thing you think is a contradiction - the DM can work background features in no matter the setting - is not a contradiction. It is a statement of fact. Are some background features or setting specific backgrounds more difficult than others? Yes. But they all should require some work on the DM's part, especially if you want them to feel natural to the narrative.

I disagree, "the final say" is what changed on a dime . You went from talking about how the GM needs to find a way to make it work to blaming the player for not reading the word eberron on the cover of rising and doubling down on reasons why the feature can not pollute a non-eberron setting.

 

[mamba]

It's funny--Oofta doesn't like it because it's not a mechanic and therefore it "just works", and you don't like it because it is a mechanic that's unique to them and therefore it "just works."

I do not like it because it makes no sense to work anywhere, all the time, and yet that is how it is written

Because you can have commoners going out of their way to help a sailor, sage, or noble, if it makes sense. It's just that the folk hero has that happen more often.

as I said, the problem is that it claims that it should reliably work anywhere, every single time, not that it might happen sometimes

Which can be as minor as "nope, I didn't see them," when the guards come around. Are you thinking that the commoners would always go out of their way to stash the character in a safe room and make them a new fake ID?

it can also be considerably more than a simple 'no'. If the feature were that sometimes commoners deny having seen you recently when asked, I would not have a problem with it

 

[RoughCoronet0]

My group just uses custom backgrounds so we can pick out our proficiencies, since we find little use for the pre-set backgrounds or their pseudo-features and Ideals/bonds/flaws.

I do miss Themes from 4e, there were so many interesting ones that gave some cool mechanical features and abilities that could be mixed with your race and class features.

I am also surprised that this talk of backgrounds hasn't been moved to it's own dedicated thread after so many pages of drifting to the topic.

 

[mamba]

Nope. The mechanics doesn't say "every time." It just says that commoners will help you out.

how do you interpret will help out? That sounds like 'every time' to me... the 'unless' to me is much more narrow than you describe it, 'shown to be' is very different from 'potentially could be seen as'

 

[mamba]

But it's very silly to say a background is bad just because it requires a few moments to think of a reason why their feature makes sense.

I disagree with the premise of them making sense....

 

[Faolyn]

But you've given no reason why the folk hero's background give them special consideration. It just sort of happens.

For me? The folk hero did something cool before they became an adventurer and word spread, they became a hero of the people. But once they're beyond that area of influence? It's illogical to treat them any different. It's fine if it works for you and your group, it's just not the style of play I want.

It doesn't require any special consideration. It requires treating their feature the exact same way you would treat anyone else's feature.

how do you interpret will help out? That sounds like 'every time' to me... the 'unless' to me is much more narrow than you describe it, 'shown to be' is very different from 'potentially could be seen as'

That they're willing to help out, but not if it could cause them problems. Not that they are slavishly going to help out every single time no matter what.

I disagree with the premise of them making sense....

Nothing about their background says that people have to know they were a hero, because in that case, they would never receive any benefits except in their home town and maybe a few miles around that, which would make it useless in 99% of campaigns. Which means that nobody is required to know that they're a folk hero--and indeed, the background doesn't say "because they know you're a hero, they'll blah blah." Instead, it says that you fit in well with commoners, and commoners are going to be willing to help each other out if it's not too much trouble. It's literally the same thing as the noble background, where they fit in in high society.

it can also be considerably more than a simple 'no'. If the feature were that sometimes commoners deny having seen you recently when asked, I would not have a problem with it

It could be, but most commoners are neutral, not good, if you care about alignments. They're not going to stick their necks out for strangers if it means their own necks are on the line.

 

[mamba]

Nothing about their background says that people have to know they were a hero, because in that case, they would never receive any benefits except in their home town and maybe a few miles around that, which would make it useless in 99% of campaigns.

and that is why the feature as written makes no sense to me… of course they need to be recognized, why else do they get the treatment and everyone else does not

it says that you fit in well with commoners, and commoners are going to be willing to help each other

you know who else fits in really well with commoners? Other commoners, so most people (hence the term…), yet they do not get this treatment, only the Folk Hero does…

If this is how most people are treated anyway, then it is a really sucky feature

 

[trACT]

I'm happy with the current 5E rules, so will be sticking with them.

 

[Faolyn]

and that is why the feature as written makes no sense to me… of course they need to be recognized, why else do they get the treatment and everyone else does not

And again, there is nothing in the feature that says they have to be recognized. There is nothing in the feature that suggests that your heroics are important in how people treat you. All the feature says is that you know how to fit in among commoners. There is absolutely no special treatment here and the only implication is that commoners are willing to help each other out, but are less willing to help people of other social groups out. Which totally makes sense in a typical D&D setting--or in the real world, for that matter.

You were a hero in your own town, and having had a taste of heroics, decided to go out and adventure. That makes a bit more sense than having a "Former Peasant" background and that says "you used to be a dirt farmer until one day you said '$@&! it!', threw down your shovel, and decided to go out and adventure."

And they are not getting special treatment, no more than acolytes get special treatment because they can get healed for free, or guild merchants get special treatments because their guilds will give them legal representation, or hermits get special treatments because sometimes the cosmos tells them things. Every single background gets a feature. The folk hero's is even less useful than many because you don't even get treated to a lifestyle--just a place where you can rest and recuperate and have your hosts tell the guards they saw you going that way when you actually went this way, the latter of which isn't even going to be applicable 99% of the time, unless your PCs are on the run from the law a lot.

you know who else fits in really well with commoners? Other commoners, so most people (hence the term…), yet they do not get this treatment, only the Folk Hero does…

That's absolutely true. The vast majority of NPCs are commoners, and they're able to rest at each other's house and help each other out when the law comes after them.

The PCs, however, are probably not playing former commoners. In the actual example that started this pointless tangent, we had one sage (which overwrote any commoner traits they may have had, if any--maybe their parents were middle-class), one sailor (which overwrote any commoner traits they may have had, if any--maybe they were born on a ship), and one noble (who very much never had any commoner traits to begin with).

 

[mamba]

And again, there is nothing in the feature that says they have to be recognized. There is nothing in the feature that suggests that your heroics are important in how people treat you. All the feature says is that you know how to fit in among commoners. There is absolutely no special treatment here

well, I disagree. Any commoner can fit in with commoners, yet they do not get the same feature. So something makes the Folk Hero different, and the commoners can identify that. To me that is them recognizing the folk hero, if for you it is ‘because the text says so, but I have no idea how they do it’ then you can continue doing it that way.

For me it makes no sense, and I won’t, and that is where the feature falls apart for me. It has no internal logic and a ‘because WotC says so’ is not enough for me

And they are not getting special treatment, no more than acolytes get special treatment because they can get healed for free

they get a special treatment compared to commoners

The PCs, however, are probably not playing former commoners.

most are, being a hermit, sage or criminal, etc. does not mean you are not a commoner