D&D 5E Do you think the monk has too few ki points? And my proposal.

[Blue]

I was discussing the monk with a player in my group. We both agreed that the monk gets too few ki points and is one of the weaker classes for that reason. Monks get 1 ki per level, so at third level the monk has 3 ki points. With 3 ki points at that level, the monk can do a couple of things in a fight and then is left with nothing but a simple melee attack until the next short rest. At 10th level, with only 10 ki points, again the monk can't last long before he burns through all those ki points, and is left fairly weak from then. Weaker than a 10th level should be in my opinion.

Now, I don't think the monk is badly unbalanced; just a bit unbalanced. And I think that a slight nudge would make a big difference. My feeling is that increasing a monk's ki points by 50%, round up, would be in that "just right" zone. So at third level, the monk would have 5 ki points instead of 3. Not a big increase, but more reasonable to my mind. And by 10th level, the monk would have 15 ki points. Again, more reasonable.

Thoughts?

I see the problem from a different angle.

There are some things, like Stunning Strike, that cost only 1 ki that are amazing. If that was the standard calibration the monk absolutely does not need more ki. They are on-par or bettter than other weapon-wielder casters like Paladin or Ranger in terms of triggering special abilities. None of that type of class is balanced around being able to do their combat adds all day.

Looking at some of the abilities (especially the Way of the Four Elements subclass), the cots are much higher for so much less. If this was the standard calibration (so Stunning Strike would be about 4 Ki), then Monks have too little Ki and should have more.

In other words, the Ki costs between the utility of abilities is way off. Increasing Ki without raising the low ones would be unbalanced. Leaving Ki as it is leaves some abilities too expensive for what they return, causing you to miss out on using them so it's unbalanced in that you can't take advantage of your features.

To sum up - I'd either keep things as they are and reduce some of the very high Ki costs, or I'd give more Ki but also increase some of the cheap costs. Just adding Ki I feel would be unbalanced against the other weapon half-casters as well as the BM fighter that's also a short-rest-add-to-weapon class.

 

[FrogReaver]

Our solution on 4 elements monk is to make the spell casts be a bonus action instead of an action and to give him 1 bonus ki.

In terms of damage, low level monks are very competitive with battle master fighters and paladins. (Excluding variant human damage feats)

 

[Cornpuff]

I played a monk 1-10 (well 1-7, and then a Rogue multiclass) in Curse of Strahd and never felt like I was super lacking in KI as a Way of Shadows monk. My spells were maybe a little costly at levels 3 and 4, but replenishing was just a short rest away. I think level 4 is a growing pains level for all classes--you're able to just brush the ceiling of your abilities without that second attack or 3rd level spell slot, so I wouldn't say being ki-starved deviated from the norm.

 

[5ekyu]

I was discussing the monk with a player in my group. We both agreed that the monk gets too few ki points and is one of the weaker classes for that reason. Monks get 1 ki per level, so at third level the monk has 3 ki points. With 3 ki points at that level, the monk can do a couple of things in a fight and then is left with nothing but a simple melee attack until the next short rest. At 10th level, with only 10 ki points, again the monk can't last long before he burns through all those ki points, and is left fairly weak from then. Weaker than a 10th level should be in my opinion.

Now, I don't think the monk is badly unbalanced; just a bit unbalanced. And I think that a slight nudge would make a big difference. My feeling is that increasing a monk's ki points by 50%, round up, would be in that "just right" zone. So at third level, the monk would have 5 ki points instead of 3. Not a big increase, but more reasonable to my mind. And by 10th level, the monk would have 15 ki points. Again, more reasonable.

Thoughts?

i would say that in my experience the monk is not at all underpowered - especially from ki points. With them recovering at short rests in full - thats basically resulting in at worst half your ki available for a fight and often almost all of them for big fights if you don't just spew them around on minions.

I have found the monk to be very strong.

So, changes to beef it up, especially ki points would not see much support from my players - not with all the options the monk gets.

 

[BookBarbarian]

You notice that patient defense and flurry both require a bonus action. So you are spwnding ki at twice the allowed rate.

I see the problem from a different angle.

There are some things, like Stunning Strike, that cost only 1 ki that are amazing. If that was the standard calibration the monk absolutely does not need more ki. They are on-par or bettter than other weapon-wielder casters like Paladin or Ranger in terms of triggering special abilities. None of that type of class is balanced around being able to do their combat adds all day.

Looking at some of the abilities (especially the Way of the Four Elements subclass), the cots are much higher for so much less. If this was the standard calibration (so Stunning Strike would be about 4 Ki), then Monks have too little Ki and should have more.

In other words, the Ki costs between the utility of abilities is way off. Increasing Ki without raising the low ones would be unbalanced. Leaving Ki as it is leaves some abilities too expensive for what they return, causing you to miss out on using them so it's unbalanced in that you can't take advantage of your features.

To sum up - I'd either keep things as they are and reduce some of the very high Ki costs, or I'd give more Ki but also increase some of the cheap costs. Just adding Ki I feel would be unbalanced against the other weapon half-casters as well as the BM fighter that's also a short-rest-add-to-weapon class.

i would say that in my experience the monk is not at all underpowered - especially from ki points. With them recovering at short rests in full - thats basically resulting in at worst half your ki available for a fight and often almost all of them for big fights if you don't just spew them around on minions.

I have found the monk to be very strong.

So, changes to beef it up, especially ki points would not see much support from my players - not with all the options the monk gets.

While the topic is evergreen the specific post y'all are replying too is over a year old. I wouldn't hold my breath for a response.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I think Monks have plenty of Ki.

But I can see that if a player is thinking, "Oh my god...have to use Flurry of Blows every fight..." then, yeah, you'd burn through it pretty quickly. I often don't use any in a fight because I know it's going to turn out ok.

Ki is there for when the $#!& hits the fan and you need a little sumpin' extra.

Just remember that, as a monk, on your deathbed you will achieve perfect consciousness. So you got that going for you. Which is nice.

 

[Guest 6801328]

While the topic is evergreen the specific post y'all are replying too is over a year old. I wouldn't hold my breath for a response.

Doh! I didn't notice the necro. My bad.

 

[the Jester]

No, I don't think monks need more ki points. I think monks are amazing as it is.

No, I haven't played one myself, but have dmed for many. The open hand monk, especially, is really, really amazing.

Yes, a monk can blow through his ki points fast if he wants to. So what? A battlemaster fighter can blow through his superiority dice quickly if he wants to, too, and a spellcaster can blast away his spell slots in a couple of encounters if he's reckless. Those abilities all come and go at slightly different paces, but the monk doesn't need more ki points. He just has to not use them every round, just as a battlemaster shouldn't be spending superiority dice every round and a spellcaster doesn't need to burn a slot every round.

 

[77IM]

1/2 level + WIS is a pretty nice progression; takes you from 3-4 points at level 2, up to 12-15 at level 20. (This assumes that a shrewd monk player will put at least a 14 in Wis, maybe a 16 if they can get it, and might eventually max out Wis but might not.) Certain higher-level monk powers might need to be made cheaper to fit the new progression.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

With them recovering at short rests in full - thats basically resulting in at worst half your ki available for a fight and often almost all of them for big fights if you don't just spew them around on minions.

The worst-case scenario - if you're good at sticking to a budget - is that you spend half of your points in the first fight, half of your points in the second fight, and then you're completely out for the next five fights that day.

There's no guarantee that you'll get any short rests during a day. Every day is different, and resting is often limited by circumstances.