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Do You Use Metamagic Feats?
- Thread starter Ogrork the Mighty
- Start date
IMHO, that Quicken is almost required isn't an indication that it's broken but that the basic casting mechanism is broken.
Once you're a 20th level caster with several 9th level slots, what use are your 5th and 6th level slots? There's some utility spells that you want there, but can you really fill all of them? You're not going to put offensive spells there, because you're using your higher level slots for that (or running away and resting if they're empty). So you might as well fill them with quickened Magic Missile/Shield/Scorching Rays.
Once you're a 20th level caster with several 9th level slots, what use are your 5th and 6th level slots? There's some utility spells that you want there, but can you really fill all of them? You're not going to put offensive spells there, because you're using your higher level slots for that (or running away and resting if they're empty). So you might as well fill them with quickened Magic Missile/Shield/Scorching Rays.
WhatGravitas
Explorer
Empower and Quicken. Is there anything else, that's useful?
For Empower: It's great. It shows why cone of cold is a waste and allows you to use damage spells longer, even against higher level opponents. And it's extra sweet with enervation. Empower is bread-and-butter for my evoker, I've playing in RHoD. And the Sticks of Doom (TM), also known as metamagic rods of empower, lesser aid very much.
The same holds true for Quicken.
The other metamagic feats from the core books are simply not worth it. Maximise is a stinker, because of that:
Empower (10d6) ~ 35 + 17.5 = 52.5
Maximise (10d6) = 60
For an additional level, it's not worth it. Plus: You don't have that much feats, getting empower and quicken is more important.
Edit: Silent and Still spell would perhaps be worth it, if you'd roll'em together with a single +1 adjustment.
Cheers, LT.
For Empower: It's great. It shows why cone of cold is a waste and allows you to use damage spells longer, even against higher level opponents. And it's extra sweet with enervation. Empower is bread-and-butter for my evoker, I've playing in RHoD. And the Sticks of Doom (TM), also known as metamagic rods of empower, lesser aid very much.
The same holds true for Quicken.
The other metamagic feats from the core books are simply not worth it. Maximise is a stinker, because of that:
Empower (10d6) ~ 35 + 17.5 = 52.5
Maximise (10d6) = 60
For an additional level, it's not worth it. Plus: You don't have that much feats, getting empower and quicken is more important.
Edit: Silent and Still spell would perhaps be worth it, if you'd roll'em together with a single +1 adjustment.
Cheers, LT.
LonePaladin said:
Just as an FYI, you can't Chain a Disintegrate
Chain Spell only works on spells with a single 'Target:' entry.
Ray spells (Disintegrate, Enervation, etc) are 'Effect: Ray' and no 'Target:' entry and so are not eligible for Chain Spell. You need Split Ray instead.
the Jester
Legend
Both as a dm and as a player, I love metamagic feats. However, since 3.5 psionics, I've thought that spells should have built-in "augments" like psionics, so that you do not have to use a feat slot up to employ them. I wonder if 4e will head somewhat in this direction; I feel that quicker feat acquisition is almost guaranteed (but that might be the influence of the many folks here that have tried it and loved it; my group did too in my low-magic campaign).
Anyway, in the games I run, pc spellcasters often take metamagic feats. Not always, but often.
Some of the more popular ones seem to be Extend, Maximize, Empower and Quicken Spell. I have seen a lot of other feats get taken one or two times (or used 'em once or twice for npcs). However, there are some metamagic feats that I have never seen a pc use, and have never used as a dm, including Widen Spell. I think it must be hideously overcosted
I also think some metamagic feats could use a serious rethinking as to the level offset cost. You're already "spending" a precious feat slot on the ability; some of the weaker metamagic feats might be okay with no level increase at all, for example.
Anyway, in the games I run, pc spellcasters often take metamagic feats. Not always, but often.
Some of the more popular ones seem to be Extend, Maximize, Empower and Quicken Spell. I have seen a lot of other feats get taken one or two times (or used 'em once or twice for npcs). However, there are some metamagic feats that I have never seen a pc use, and have never used as a dm, including Widen Spell. I think it must be hideously overcosted
I also think some metamagic feats could use a serious rethinking as to the level offset cost. You're already "spending" a precious feat slot on the ability; some of the weaker metamagic feats might be okay with no level increase at all, for example.
I've yet to play a caster at a high enough level to use Quicken spell, but I've gotten good use out of Extend and Empower (both as a player and as a DM).
One thing I have noticed is that I'm reluctant to use metamagic if I'm making a wizard or cleric, but won't leave home without it if I've got a spontaneous caster. I think its because if I prepare an Empowered Fireball, I've lost that fifth level spell slot, without knowing if I'd be fine with just a regular, 3rd level slot fireball; whereas if I spontaneously cast an Empowered Fireball, I know that I needed an empowered fireball. It feels like less of a loss that way. The only feat I can recall grabbing for a prepared caster is Extend Spell, and then I know that I'll want a spell to last quite a while, so it doesn't feel like I'm sacrificing anything.
One thing I have noticed is that I'm reluctant to use metamagic if I'm making a wizard or cleric, but won't leave home without it if I've got a spontaneous caster. I think its because if I prepare an Empowered Fireball, I've lost that fifth level spell slot, without knowing if I'd be fine with just a regular, 3rd level slot fireball; whereas if I spontaneously cast an Empowered Fireball, I know that I needed an empowered fireball. It feels like less of a loss that way. The only feat I can recall grabbing for a prepared caster is Extend Spell, and then I know that I'll want a spell to last quite a while, so it doesn't feel like I'm sacrificing anything.
