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Do you want gnomes in the first phb?

Do you want gnomes in the first phb?

  • Yes

    Votes: 117 46.4%
  • No

    Votes: 135 53.6%

pawsplay

Hero
I wish the 3.5 designers had switched elves to having sorcerer as a favored class and gnomes having wizard. Then elves would be graceful and charismatic, and gnomes would have something of a mechanical justification. Gnomes were originally "small dwarves" who were later described as pranksters and illusionists. They had some weird abilities. In basic D&D, they were yet another pointless 1 HD humanoid. But it was something.

The current incarnation suffers from a cardinal design sin: the monolithic, one-note culture. Sure, nonhumans are supposed to be less versatile than humans, and each race is supposed to evoke something in particular. That doesn't mean every member of the race is supposed to be the same. Further, there needs to be more to them than one aspect. They should have a complex, multifaceted society. Simply because dwarves know a lot about rock and earth does not mean they should eat rocks, wear rocks as armor, use rocks as weapons, use "earth power" in combat, name all their kids Stoney, etc. Dwarves have the benefit of external mythologies (Norse myth, Tolkien, Warhammer, some reasonably solid fictional presentations in D&D novels).

Gnomes are whoppee cushion assassins, and that sucks. Further, the only gnomes to be detailed in books are Krynn gnomes, which are something else again.

To me, gnomes are crafty, semi-solitary, good with tools, a little greedy, not too proud, somewhat cantankerous but generous in nature, somewhat magical, a little mysterious. Simply giving them something besides banjos and whoopee cushions would help.
 

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Geoff Watson

First Post
Personally, I'd prefer just Humans in the PHB, and use the space for more classes/feats/options. Leave the other races in the MM, with a "Races" book later with the racial feats/options.

If more races were required I'd use Elves, Dwarfs, and Halflings.
If more races are needed than that I'd add some of the 'evil' races such as Orc, Goblin, Kobold, and Hobgoblin.

Half-races in fiction are usually unique or very rare; not suited for a core race IMO.
Gnomes are boring; too similar to halflings or dwarfs.

Geoff.
 


Klaus

First Post
One of the original inspirations for D&D, Poul Anderson's "Three Hearts & Three Lions", had Hugi, the forest dwarf (really, a gnome), as one of the protagonists. I think gnomes have a part in D&D.
 

Sirith

First Post
I'm a fan of gnomes, because somehow I can identify myself with an intelligent, fun loving creature which they are to me. The 'tinker' part is a bit much, but as they play with magic (or technology, or whatever), I play with molecules (that's chemistry for you).

I don't understand what people have against gnomes, I feel the reasons mentioned are primarily because 'every race needs a little box in which it's supposed to be'. Elves in a forest, dwarves in mines, etc. Feels very confined to the stereotypical roles, which does not justify the need to throw them out of the PHB to me.
 

Sirith said:
I'm a fan of gnomes, because somehow I can identify myself with an intelligent, fun loving creature which they are to me. The 'tinker' part is a bit much, but as they play with magic (or technology, or whatever), I play with molecules (that's chemistry for you).

That kind of "high tech" stuff might be annoying people as it hardly fits into fantasy. (Yes there were real life chemists and people calling themselves alchemists in the Middle Ages, but the former were doing experiments we now teach in high school and the latter were often deluded.) It doesn't help that tinker gnomes weren't perceived as serious, which, along with kender and gully dwarves, probably explains why the small people of Dragonlance are so hated.

Gnomes not being serious is a big problem. It's one thing if a human, dwarf or elf is a joker, it's quite another thing if the entire species is seen that way. (I think that's one reason why bards aren't treated seriously; for whatever reason no one can treat a singer seriously. If bards had more serious abilities that went with "singing the histories" I think they'd be more popular, rather than the "rock star with groupies" with "magical songs" they're treat like now.)

I don't understand what people have against gnomes, I feel the reasons mentioned are primarily because 'every race needs a little box in which it's supposed to be'.

Every race seems to need a little box it's supposed to start in. Often an elven character will be described as "more serious/morose/whatever than most elves" and so forth. As for elves themselves, I don't think they're in the "must be in a forest box", even though the race starts there. Virtually every setting I've seen has elves starting out in the wild, but they often end up with big cities and what not.

Eberron came up with a cool box to start gnomes in, by they way, which even explains most of their non-sensical abilities. (What do illusions and singing have to do with talking to rats?)

In Eberron, werefolk are an important part of the history's setting. Gnomes are, in effect, weak blooded wererats which were first seen in the jungle (which explains quite a few things, like why they can talk to rats). There's more info on "modern"* Eberron gnomes here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041129a

They're not treated as practical jokers with cannons there, and are about as funny as the KGB.

*The time when the setting starts, that is. :)
 
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Jhaelen

First Post
Klaus said:
One of the original inspirations for D&D, Poul Anderson's "Three Hearts & Three Lions", had Hugi, the forest dwarf (really, a gnome), as one of the protagonists. I think gnomes have a part in D&D.
Ha! Finally some evidence for what I always suspected:
D&D gnomes are really just some kind of dwarves!

Out with the gnomes, in with the forest dwarves :p
 

Woas

First Post
Gnope.
Gnomes should be moved to the Monster Manual as a fey creature.

I also don't want any type of outsider replacing them either.
 

(contact)

Explorer
I voted no, becuase I'd only be interested in gnomes as a PC class if they had a legitimate niche in the game millieu that wasn't ultimately comedic.

Bleep Gleependoodle the Wacky Inventor* is cute in a couple scenes, but I don't want him in all of them.

-----

*And I did use Fonkin Bastich and Ender Overunder as NPCs. Once. It was enough.
 


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