D&D 5E Do you want psionics in your D&D?

[Aldarc]

[MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION], as I'm not particularly interested in having conversations with walls-of-quote-text, I'll keep my comments brief. I'm aware that new systems may not be the sole objection to psionics, nor have I stated otherwise. Again, I was pressing particular the point about new systems. I'm glad that you are consistent with your application of class acccessibility in your games; I did not want to presume that you weren't. I disagree with your apology of the divine/arcane dichotomy (as well as a few points in your universal magic system discussion), but it is largely beside my point, which was primarily that the perceived "incoherence" of psionics is a subjective one derived from aesthetics (and, in part, as per your words, tradition rather than coherence) and not an inherently objective one.

Not true, the 'no more new sub-systems' card is also played against new weapons, new archetypes, and of course, new classes, especially the Warlord.

I apologize that my words were too definitive. I should have said that it is a criticism commonly, if not unfairly, applied to psionics, albeit not solely to psionics.

Yep, but they all reference spells, so though the system is different, they can re-cycle large portions of the existing rules.

I would not be opposed to constructing psionics along a similar line. That was the basis, after all, for the 3.5/Pathfinder psionics system.

It's certainly doesn't model magic found in most of the broader fantasy genre at all well. It's coherent enough mechanically, though, as any remotely workable system would have to be.

I tend to disagree, as I find that psionics suits the fantasy genre incredibly well. It's subtle, mystical, and extraordinary sort of magic that exists in contrast to the bombastic nerd power-fantasy of the D&D wizard. I think we tend to get stuck in our genre a bit too much, and we forget magic outside of the realm of D&D-inspired fiction. Psionics/psychic magic is exceedingly common in a lot of romantic fantasy, powers commonly associated with witchcraft, South and Eastern Asian-inspired fantasy, superheroes (a sort of modern fantasy), science-fantasy, etc.

 

[SkidAce]

DnD still remains a toolkit from my perspective. So the debate of whether psionics fits in DnD is moot.

It is of course critically important for your campaign and its flavor.

But of all the examples of add on systems (mass combat, running a kingdom, etc) psionics seems best to fit the description of an option that should be available.

There is no need to debate whether it fits in a certain flavor, or even if its redundant with magic, because for those that want it, it will (of course) fit into the campaign.

Sometimes its indistinguishable from the other types (mind magic), other times its a completely different source (god power). Some examples I have used;



(Main Campaign world): Psionics is rare and misunderstood because of its subtlety, its distrusted when (if) recognized. The commoners usually cant tell. Arcanes dont like it cause they cant explain it. Divines dont like it cause their gods mistrust it for "some" reason. It is usually encountered in the camapign via ancient and bizarre monsters, which only makes it reputation worse. Psionic items are found in lost ruins. Characters involved in strange occurrences sometimes gain "powers". (fighter gained danger sense, druid telekinesis for ex.) Humans have it more often and may be related to gith races.

(Side Campaign): Psionics is the path to godhood. There is a war raging behind the scenes to keep psionics stamped out, to prevent any threat to divine power.

(Side Campaign): Psionics is not magic, its science! Magic varies in prevalence across the cosmos, ebbs and flows like a river. Campaign is set in world where magic and science are both available, if only low levels of each. Psionics works in magic dead areas that are slowly growing larger....is psionics eating the magic? Head to an "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" to find out.

(Side Campaign): Psionics doesn't exist. Magic is tied to the land and spirits. Setting leans towards arcane style druids, clerical monasteries, and individual wizard towers/redoubts.

 

[Tony Vargas]

[MENTION=4937]I tend to disagree, as I find that psionics suits the fantasy genre incredibly well. It's subtle, mystical, and extraordinary sort of magic that exists in contrast to the bombastic nerd power-fantasy of the D&D wizard. I think we tend to get stuck in our genre a bit too much, and we forget magic outside of the realm of D&D-inspired fiction. Psionics/psychic magic is exceedingly common in a lot of romantic fantasy, powers commonly associated with witchcraft, South and Eastern Asian-inspired fantasy, ...

Subtler magic and mystic or psychic powers certainly fit fantasy well enough. The sorcerer who can read your mind, the seer who can foretell the future, the magic mirror that shows you other places, the enchantress who controls minds, all far predate the science-fiction term & trope of psionics.

D&D's bombastic fireball & lightning bolt magic isn't a lot better in terms of fitting to the broader fantasy genre than psionics, but for different reasons. Psionics has (some) of the right effects, because they were lifted from professed magical abilities, myth, & fantasy and sanitized/re-skinned for the more respectable (at the time, the time being mid-20th-century) science-fiction genre. D&D has entirely the wrong effects, lifted from wargames set in gunpowder eras ('wizards are like artillery units'), sanitized/re-skinned for use in fantasy.

 

[sunrisekid]

I do not like psionics in the standard D&D game. However, I did like that in 4E certain aberrations, e.g., mind flayers, had them. This was tied to them being from a different plane of existence, in the Lovecraftian "beyond the stars" sort of way. In that sense, psionics is neither physics nor magic but something else entirely, and in the Lovecraftian sense, perhaps also unknowable to the human mind. So my appreciation of psionics is in a very specific use scenario.