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does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3247614" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Sure they could.</p><p></p><p>What does -2 to a spell casting stat really mean in DND?</p><p></p><p>1) It means -1 to the DC for saving throws. So, 19 times out of 20, the exact same result would occur. 1 time in 20, an opponent will save where he wouldn't have without the -2 to the stat. 95% of the time, there is no change.</p><p></p><p>2) It means that the character will have 1 to 3 fewer bonus spells. Although significant at real low levels, this is basically white noise by level 8 or so.</p><p></p><p>3) For Half-Orcs, it means one less skill rank per level and 5% of the time, Int or Cha skills will fail where they would have succeeded.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But, the reason people make such a big deal out of the Half-Orc abilities is that people are basically min-maxers at heart. If something is not optimal, it sucks. Cry me a river. Half-Orcs get the highest core race Strength in the game and Darkvision. For combatant types, it doesn't get much better than that.</p><p></p><p>But for min-maxers, that's not enough. They have to whine about how Dwarves get more abilities. Sure Dwarves get more abilities. Dwarves are a more defensive race. Half-Orcs are a more offensive race and have better mobility. Pros and Cons people.</p><p></p><p>At level 4, the 21 Str Half-Orc can Power Attack for one more than the 19 Str Dwarf and be the same to hit, but do with a Greatsword 2D6 +1 (magic) +1 (weapon focus) +7 (strength) +2 (power attack) = 18 average points of damage compared to the Dwarf's 15 average points of damage.</p><p></p><p>At level 8 (with a +2 magic weapon and 22 Str vs. 20 Str), it goes to 21 average points for the Half-Orc compared to 17 average points for the Dwarf.</p><p></p><p>And the trend continues. So, 3 to 4 points more damage per successful attack (with the same to hit and the option to have a better to hit without power attacking) is very significant for a melee oriented character. It means that it will often take one fewer successful attack to take out an opponent and it means that the Half-Orc blows through Damage Reduction better. For example, a 60 hit point opponent will be taken out on average with 3 successful hits by the 8th level Half-Orc and 4 successful hits by the 8th level Dwarf. With DR 10, that becomes 6 hits by the Half-Orc and 9 hits by the Dwarf.</p><p></p><p>Strength for Half-Orcs is just as significant as (if not more significant than) the other defensive benefits that Dwarves get over Half-Orcs. +2 Strength is huge and will finish battles quicker and result in fewer resources per battle than the +2 Con and other defensive abilities that a Dwarf gets.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 3247614, member: 2011"] Sure they could. What does -2 to a spell casting stat really mean in DND? 1) It means -1 to the DC for saving throws. So, 19 times out of 20, the exact same result would occur. 1 time in 20, an opponent will save where he wouldn't have without the -2 to the stat. 95% of the time, there is no change. 2) It means that the character will have 1 to 3 fewer bonus spells. Although significant at real low levels, this is basically white noise by level 8 or so. 3) For Half-Orcs, it means one less skill rank per level and 5% of the time, Int or Cha skills will fail where they would have succeeded. But, the reason people make such a big deal out of the Half-Orc abilities is that people are basically min-maxers at heart. If something is not optimal, it sucks. Cry me a river. Half-Orcs get the highest core race Strength in the game and Darkvision. For combatant types, it doesn't get much better than that. But for min-maxers, that's not enough. They have to whine about how Dwarves get more abilities. Sure Dwarves get more abilities. Dwarves are a more defensive race. Half-Orcs are a more offensive race and have better mobility. Pros and Cons people. At level 4, the 21 Str Half-Orc can Power Attack for one more than the 19 Str Dwarf and be the same to hit, but do with a Greatsword 2D6 +1 (magic) +1 (weapon focus) +7 (strength) +2 (power attack) = 18 average points of damage compared to the Dwarf's 15 average points of damage. At level 8 (with a +2 magic weapon and 22 Str vs. 20 Str), it goes to 21 average points for the Half-Orc compared to 17 average points for the Dwarf. And the trend continues. So, 3 to 4 points more damage per successful attack (with the same to hit and the option to have a better to hit without power attacking) is very significant for a melee oriented character. It means that it will often take one fewer successful attack to take out an opponent and it means that the Half-Orc blows through Damage Reduction better. For example, a 60 hit point opponent will be taken out on average with 3 successful hits by the 8th level Half-Orc and 4 successful hits by the 8th level Dwarf. With DR 10, that becomes 6 hits by the Half-Orc and 9 hits by the Dwarf. Strength for Half-Orcs is just as significant as (if not more significant than) the other defensive benefits that Dwarves get over Half-Orcs. +2 Strength is huge and will finish battles quicker and result in fewer resources per battle than the +2 Con and other defensive abilities that a Dwarf gets. [/QUOTE]
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does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?
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