does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?

AbeTheGnome

First Post
i mean, compared to the other races, they seem underpowered to me. their ability scores even out, and the only perk they get is darkvision. i'm thinking about giving them the scent ability in my next campaign. would this unbalance the race to the point of LA?
 

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Thermmese

First Post
orc gyped i don't think so

they often speak orc and are considered orc blood.

that's what half-orcs are. They aren't Uruk-kai !
 

No, I don't think they got gypped, but it wouldn't hurt to give them a few more perks. I wouldn't give them scent, but perhaps +1 to Spot and Listen and +2 to Survival checks, to reflect their feral natures (or something).
 

AbeTheGnome

First Post
Olgar Shiverstone said:
No, I don't think they got gypped, but it wouldn't hurt to give them a few more perks. I wouldn't give them scent, but perhaps +1 to Spot and Listen and +2 to Survival checks, to reflect their feral natures (or something).
so scent is over the top? i don't think it would apply in as many situations as spot, listen, or survival... and i know they're just half-orcs, but in my campaigns, there are no such things as half-orcs. just regular old orcs with the stats and abilities of half-orcs.
 

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
Yes, they're definately too weak as a race. They should get a +2 Con to balance out their attribute deficiencies, and a few skill bonuses to help them be on par with other races (just look at what Dwarves get, for example, how can anyone say Half-Orcs are balanced?). I'd suggest giving them a +2 Intimidate and Survival, for starters.
 

AbeTheGnome

First Post
Falling Icicle said:
Yes, they're definately too weak as a race. They should get a +2 Con to balance out their attribute deficiencies, and a few skill bonuses to help them be on par with other races (just look at what Dwarves get, for example, how can anyone say Half-Orcs are balanced?). I'd suggest giving them a +2 Intimidate and Survival, for starters.
i don't really think they're unbalanced as far as ability scores go... the DMG says that a -2 penalty to two mental stats is equal to a +2 bonus to a physical stat (i.e. -2 CHA, -2 INT, +2 STR). the bonus to intimidate and survival is not a bad idea, though. it makes sense.
 

Klaus

First Post
I had the same opinion since 2004. That became this article, with two half-orc variants (half-human orcs and half-orc humans):

http://www.fierydragon.com/db/2004-05-27.htm

Orc Blood!?

by Claudio Pozas

Let's face it: half-orcs got the short end of the stick when it came to assigning racial traits. All other non-human races get bonuses to skills, weapon proficiencies and more, while our boys get what? Orc Blood? C'mon!

So what follow are not one, but TWO half-orc variants. Half-human orcs (which are half-orcs raised by orcs) and half-orc humans (which are those raised in human society). Enjoy!

Half-Human Orcs

Half-human orcs are orc-human crossbreeds raised by their orcish kin. They suffer from most of the cultural drawbacks of orcs, such as a lack of education, a poor sense of hygiene and a tendency to hate everyone else. Since they're not as strong as full-blooded orcs, half-human orcs must make up for it through sheer cunning and malice, as befits a kill-or-be-killed society.

Half-human orcs generally become the scouts and hunters of orc tribes, since they have keen senses to balance their (relatively) reduced physical prowess. For a half-human orc, chiefdom is virtually unatainable, but they may become advisors and hidden masterminds among the even cruder orcs.

When away from other orcs, half-human orcs usually feel the call of their human side, which manifests usually as a sense of wanderlust or curiosity. But when meeting strangers they tend to show all the usual orc prejudices (specially hatred against elves and dwarves).

Half-Human Orc Racial Traits:

- +2 Strength. -2 Intelligence: Half-human orcs are physically imposing, but have a hard time reasoning.
- Medium: As Medium creatures, half-human orcs get no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Half-human orc base land speed is 30 feet.
- Darkvision: Half-human orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
- +1 racial bonus on Survival and Listen checks.
- +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks and on level checks to resist intimidation.
- Half-human orcs receive Endurance as a bonus feat.
- -2 penalty to Bluff, Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. Half-human orcs are generally distrusted.
- Weapon Familiarity: A half-human orc treats the orc double-axe as a martial weapon instead of an exotic one.
- Orc Blood: For all special effects that depend on race, a half-human orc counts as an orc.
- Favored Class: Barbarian. A half-human orc heeds the call of its orcish ancestry.

Half-Orc Humans

Half-orc humans are orc-human crossbreeds raised by their human kin. They endure a great deal of prejudice while growing up, and that tends to toughen them up to face the world. At the same time, their faster growth rate ensure that they are larger and stronger than most humans of their age, leading to a sense of personal power. Unless reared by a loving parent, half-orc humans tend to become bullies.

Half-orc humans tend to work where their savage features go unnoticed and their great strength is appreciated, becoming blacksmiths, sailors and hunters. They tend to be either too reserved and wary or too boisterous and imposing. But once one gets past that defense mecanism, the half-orc human shows all the personality ranges of a human, even if a bit short-tempered.

Half-orc humans don't have any special attitude towards elves and dwarves, but are so often treated badly by such individuals that they develop a dislike for them anyway (but mostly geared towards the individual than to the race as a whole).

Half-Human Orc Racial Traits:

- +2 Strength. -2 Intelligence: Half-orc humans are physically imposing, but have a hard time reasoning.
- Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orc humans get no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Half-orc human base land speed is 30 feet.
- Darkvision: Half-orc humans can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
- +1 racial bonus on Listen checks.
- +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks and on level checks to resist intimidation.
- Half-orc humans receive the Endurance feat as a bonus.
- Orc Blood: For all special effects that depend on race, a half-orc human counts as an orc.
- Favored Class: Any. A half-orc human can heed the call of their wild orcish heart or the adaptability of their human spirit.
 

The_Gneech

Explorer
Yes, half-orcs got the shaft -- especially when compared w/ dwarves. Dwarves make better barbarians than half-orcs do -- that just doesn't make sense.

I generally just drop the INT penalty, myself.

-The Gneech :cool:
 

smootrk

First Post
Half Orcs seem to be somewhat lacking. I believe that it was a conscious (or possibly unconscious) decision to penalize the 'ugly' or 'evil' race just a little bit more over the 'goodly' or traditional races, to help encourage players to choose the more iconic and goodly types. It is the whole 'evil is ugly/stupid/undesirable' mentality.

But honestly, the choices for ability score adjustments for all the races were arbitrary decisions centered on the concept of balance over any other consideration.
Dwarves: Con is fine, but why Cha? They can't be great commanders?
Elves: No Int bonus?!? or even a Cha bonus!?! I thought these were supposed to be the Wizards/Sorcerers supremes/
Gnomes: Con bonus? for what? arbitrary for sure. Bard preferred class? that came out of nowhere.
Heck, even Orcs used to be Lawful Evil with their deities battling on Acheron against goblins.... guess they needed a race inserted into another balancing slot (chaotic to support the barbarian class).

Just edit your races as desired (with a little concern for balance, or at least the consideration of changing the Level Adjustment to fit your edits). The results can't be any worse than the changes/decisions that were made previously.
 

Christian

Explorer
AbeTheGnome said:
i don't really think they're unbalanced as far as ability scores go... the DMG says that a -2 penalty to two mental stats is equal to a +2 bonus to a physical stat (i.e. -2 CHA, -2 INT, +2 STR).

Right. Which is why, to balance their +2 Con, dwarves get a -2 Cha and ... Oh, wait, never mind. :confused:
 

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