AbeTheGnome
First Post
yeah, dwarves deserve an LA. i'm not even going to try to argue the point that they're balanced.Christian said:Right. Which is why, to balance their +2 Con, dwarves get a -2 Cha and ... Oh, wait, never mind.
does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?
shilsen
Adventurer
I dropped the Wis penalty (which fits better for me, esp. in my Eberron game, where orcs have a strong druidic tradition) and gave them a +2 racial bonus to intimidate. That made them a decently playable race.The_Gneech said:Yes, half-orcs got the shaft -- especially when compared w/ dwarves. Dwarves make better barbarians than half-orcs do -- that just doesn't make sense.
I generally just drop the INT penalty, myself.
-The Gneech
Half-Orcs have a long history of being the red headed step child in D&D. In first edition where a half orc received bonuses to STR and CON, racial ability score caps limited Half Orc dex to around 14.
Luckily no one really enforced demihuman ability score maximums, but the half orc really took a hit there.
I give half Orcs a Con bonus and weapon familiarity with the Orchish Double Axe.
Luckily no one really enforced demihuman ability score maximums, but the half orc really took a hit there.
I give half Orcs a Con bonus and weapon familiarity with the Orchish Double Axe.
I think that half-orcs are just fine when you compare them to, say, humans and elves, and much better than half-elves. But they suck compared to dwarves, which is the race that they are most often compared to (because both races are the most melee/fighter/tank friendly races). I believe that this is a problem due to the fact that dwarves are hideously overpowered for a LA+0 race, not the fact that half-orcs are underpowered.
I view most modifications to the half-orc race as a result of this to be prime examples of power creep.
I view most modifications to the half-orc race as a result of this to be prime examples of power creep.
green slime
First Post
No one who has seen a raging half-orc Barbarian smash proteins, amino acids, and bone fragments bits into a sticky paste would call them gypped to their faces.
AbeTheGnome
First Post
ok, first off... shilsen, half-orcs don't take a hit to WIS, just INT and CHA (which makes sense, especially if you sneak in an Intimidate bonus for them).
second, yes, i'm familiar with the origin of the word "gyp." it's a colloquialism. don't get all red in the face over it. i'm pretty sure it's passed the point where the term is really associated with Roma. also, the word "gypsy" applies to groups other than the Roma, so they're not the only ones who should be getting offended over it.
and third, yeah, a raging orc barbarian is a terrible enemy, but not so much moreso than, say, a raging dwarf barbarian. the STR bonus is nice, but it doesn't compensate for the lack of other perks. frankly, i don't think half-orcs are the only race getting, um... short-changed. i tend to hand out extra racial bonuses to other underpowered races as well. power-creeping it may be, but you've got to give them something to even out with dwarves.
second, yes, i'm familiar with the origin of the word "gyp." it's a colloquialism. don't get all red in the face over it.
i'm pretty sure it's passed the point where the term is really associated with Roma. also, the word "gypsy" applies to groups other than the Roma, so they're not the only ones who should be getting offended over it.and third, yeah, a raging orc barbarian is a terrible enemy, but not so much moreso than, say, a raging dwarf barbarian. the STR bonus is nice, but it doesn't compensate for the lack of other perks. frankly, i don't think half-orcs are the only race getting, um... short-changed. i tend to hand out extra racial bonuses to other underpowered races as well. power-creeping it may be, but you've got to give them something to even out with dwarves.
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Darklone
Registered User
Which character generation method do you use? With 25 point buy, half-orcs will generally be the only ones with 18 str which makes a huge difference.
With higher ability scores, houserules for the poor half-orc babies should be considered. E.g. let them take Rage (1/5 levels) as feat.
Dwarves: Give them Dex -2 instead of Cha -2.
With higher ability scores, houserules for the poor half-orc babies should be considered. E.g. let them take Rage (1/5 levels) as feat.
Dwarves: Give them Dex -2 instead of Cha -2.
szilard
First Post
The "orc blood" thing is more of a detriment than anything else in most cases - they're susceptible to orc-bane weapons, the dwarven bonus vs. orcs and things of that sort. The places where 'counting as an orc' is a benefit are few and far between. Instead of Orc Blood as a racial trait, how about:
Dual Bloodlines: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered either an orc or a human, whichever is more beneficial to him in the circumstances.
-Stuart
Dual Bloodlines: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered either an orc or a human, whichever is more beneficial to him in the circumstances.
-Stuart
nittanytbone
First Post
Half-orcs make great barbarians. +2 to strength is pretty big for an offensive melee type, especially if you use point buy. Remember, strength helps to-hit, damage, carrying capacity (which is important if you want to stay at light encumbrance and thus move quickly...), and all sorts of other mobility related skills.
Dwarves make good tanks. Yes, they have lots of resistances, but their slow speed and lower damage output prevent them from being the offensive machines half-orcs are.
Everything seems fine to me.
Dwarves make good tanks. Yes, they have lots of resistances, but their slow speed and lower damage output prevent them from being the offensive machines half-orcs are.
Everything seems fine to me.
