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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?
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<blockquote data-quote="Enforcer" data-source="post: 3248756" data-attributes="member: 396"><p>I disagree with your take on Strength, because it's not always just a +1 to damage, particularly for the typical greatsword/greataxe wielding barbarian. No other ability score gets a 1.5x bonus depending on a simple character choice.</p><p></p><p>Example: Human Barbarian with Str 16 and a greatsword does 2d6+4, 2d6+7 while raging. The Half-Orc with the same points or roll put into Strength gets an 18 and 2d6+6 or 2d6+9 while raging. That may not seem like a big difference, but it all adds up, especially at lower levels. To put it another way, it's like the half-orc gets Weapon Focus (all melee weapons) for free, and Weapon Specialization (two-handed weapons) much of the time--depending on the exact Strength score. That's pretty awesome. And it's why half-orcs make great Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues, and even Monks.</p><p></p><p>With Power Attack it's even better. Using the same two guys above, the half-orc can take a -1 to hit with Power Attack, still have an equal chance to hit as the human, and now have a +4 damage advantage (+2 from Str, +2 for a two-handed Power Attack).</p><p></p><p>As you said, ability scores aren't equal depending on class and focus, but for most melee-focused characters, especially the two-handed weapon guys, Str is king, even if Con is usually #2.</p><p></p><p>Show me an easily obtainable set of circumstances where any of the other ability scores get 1.5x their modifier (to DC for the spellcasting stats, to AC for Dex, heck even an extra boost for skills) and I'll happily agree that they're equal to Strength and that the half-orc is therefore given the short end of the stick. I see no problem with adding an Intimidate bonus though--I'd personally do a +3, for a net +2 to Intimidate, but that's me.</p><p></p><p>Of course, all that said, I'd probably still pick a dwarf for the lack of half-orc flavor mentioned previously in the thread. Eberron has mitigated some of this, however, what with cool orc/half-orc druids and a half-orc (and human) dragonmarked house and all. </p><p></p><p>[quasi-relevant rambling] My brother once played a great half-orc Fighter who played dumb--he rolled so well for stats that his Int was still a 14 after the Int penalty, and would lull his enemies into a false sense of security by doing the "Thog smash!" bit, only to surprise them with smart tactics later on. That combined with the disgusting amount of damage he'd dish out made for a damn effective, and interesting, character. [/rambling]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Enforcer, post: 3248756, member: 396"] I disagree with your take on Strength, because it's not always just a +1 to damage, particularly for the typical greatsword/greataxe wielding barbarian. No other ability score gets a 1.5x bonus depending on a simple character choice. Example: Human Barbarian with Str 16 and a greatsword does 2d6+4, 2d6+7 while raging. The Half-Orc with the same points or roll put into Strength gets an 18 and 2d6+6 or 2d6+9 while raging. That may not seem like a big difference, but it all adds up, especially at lower levels. To put it another way, it's like the half-orc gets Weapon Focus (all melee weapons) for free, and Weapon Specialization (two-handed weapons) much of the time--depending on the exact Strength score. That's pretty awesome. And it's why half-orcs make great Fighters, Barbarians, Rogues, and even Monks. With Power Attack it's even better. Using the same two guys above, the half-orc can take a -1 to hit with Power Attack, still have an equal chance to hit as the human, and now have a +4 damage advantage (+2 from Str, +2 for a two-handed Power Attack). As you said, ability scores aren't equal depending on class and focus, but for most melee-focused characters, especially the two-handed weapon guys, Str is king, even if Con is usually #2. Show me an easily obtainable set of circumstances where any of the other ability scores get 1.5x their modifier (to DC for the spellcasting stats, to AC for Dex, heck even an extra boost for skills) and I'll happily agree that they're equal to Strength and that the half-orc is therefore given the short end of the stick. I see no problem with adding an Intimidate bonus though--I'd personally do a +3, for a net +2 to Intimidate, but that's me. Of course, all that said, I'd probably still pick a dwarf for the lack of half-orc flavor mentioned previously in the thread. Eberron has mitigated some of this, however, what with cool orc/half-orc druids and a half-orc (and human) dragonmarked house and all. [quasi-relevant rambling] My brother once played a great half-orc Fighter who played dumb--he rolled so well for stats that his Int was still a 14 after the Int penalty, and would lull his enemies into a false sense of security by doing the "Thog smash!" bit, only to surprise them with smart tactics later on. That combined with the disgusting amount of damage he'd dish out made for a damn effective, and interesting, character. [/rambling] [/QUOTE]
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does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?
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