• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

Thomas Shey

Legend
How about I just don't deal with errata unless I want to, and then I just incorporate it into my houserule doc? Is there a reason I must be beholden to Eric's errata whims? Who's to say I agree with their decisions?

Eh, individually that's fine, but I don't think its to the benefit of everyone to new people getting outdated versions of the rules. Its not a virtue doing a guessing-game about what exact rules you're using, and a GM who's sitting on three versions back of the rules while another is sitting on five versions back is a good way to confuse heck out of people, especially when they don't bother to tell anyone.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Clint_L

Hero
Well, yes we are.

If our DM decides to take the game online my choices are to either play online (not at all my preference) or drop out.
I presume if your DM chooses to take the game online they have a good reason for it. I think it creates far more opportunities than it removes. For example, when I want to play with folks in another city, it's our only option. During the pandemic, it was our only option at times. If I don't have anyone to play with locally, it might be my only option.

So chances are that if your DM is taking the game online, it is either that or no game. I suppose it is possible for a group that has always met in person to suddenly switch to playing online, but again probably not without good reason. So once again, I think the possibility of online play opens up many opportunities that didn't previously exist, and seldom takes opportunities away.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
And the real beauty of it is that you can do that with no input from the buyer. They just log on one day and the stuff they paid for is different, whether they like it our not. It's genius!
Most of the time I'm fine with corrections just being made. I probably wouldn't give my input if asked.

But I also buy physical books for my favorite products.

I'm the same way even when buying PDFs. Often I'll buy the PDF of a book and then later, once I know I really like the game, I buy the print copy. For most publishers that means I end up paying more than I would, as many publishers give you the PDF at a lower cost (or even free) if you buy it at the same time as the physical book. But overall I save money, because I don't buy physical for every product, especially adventures.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
So you want to buy a $40 book instead?
40 bucks is better?
Well, some publishers, like MCDM give the updated PDFs to their customers for free. You still have the old version.

I suppose that would be possible in DDB. I still have my legacy 5e books, such as Volo's guide, in DDB. They could keep the legacy PHB, but if they are making many incremental changes, they would get messy. They could add footnote links that indicate changes. If they had some subtle way of indicating updated text that gave you an ability to pull up a change log, that would be the best way to handle in IMHO.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Don't get me wrong: I like technology when it a) works perfectly about 100% of the time and b) does what I want it to do rather than trying to bend me into doing what it wants me to do.
What technology works 100% of the time. That's not even true for books. Also, DDB does better what I want it to do (help me find rules and stat blocks quickly) than the physical books do.
On the rare occasions I don't DM at home, I have a small box that holds all the books I (probably don't) need, plus the adventure, my DM screen, everyone's character sheets, and my game notes. Most of the run-of-play material is online on our games' website.

Far more of a headache is carrying the chalkboard, minis, dice, beer, and all the other bits. :)
One reason why when I ran in-person games, I always ran it from my home. Within a short kick on a wheeled chair I had access to bulging book shelves, terrain and minis, and a fully stocked refrigerator.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
What technology works 100% of the time. That's not even true for books.
Seems passing strange that a book wouldn't work, unless it was forgotten at home.
One reason why when I ran in-person games, I always ran it from my home. Within a short kick on a wheeled chair I had access to bulging book shelves, terrain and minis, and a fully stocked refrigerator.
I don't do terrain, but the minis and bookshelf are within arm's reach of my DM chair and the fridge is three steps away. :)
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Seems passing strange that a book wouldn't work, unless it was forgotten at home.
Well, the binding could degrade and pages can fall out. But, yes, even a book falling apart can be used. This real issue with books is that you must have them with you and are limited to the font and format they are printed in; and looking up content is limited to how good the table of contents, index, your memory, or how well you've tabbed it. But that's not a failure of the technology, just a limitation.

With DDB I can access my content from multiple devices, I don't have to worry about forgetting or losing it, don't have an issue with space and weight when I travel, can have multiple players referencing the same content simultaneously, I can resize the font, I can easily search it and have rules cross-referenced with hyperlinks. It is less that books fail on me and more that they don't meet my needs very well. For me, physical game books serve more as archival backups and aesthetic enjoyment than as tools for running games.
 

Remathilis

Legend
How about I just don't deal with errata unless I want to, and then I just incorporate it into my houserule doc? Is there a reason I must be beholden to Eric's errata whims? Who's to say I agree with their decisions?
That's fine when you're the DM I guess, but if Eric is the DM and he uses the errata, are you going to assert you're right to use the original printed version?
 

MPA2000

Explorer
So I've been ruminating on something...

D&D has had (depending on how you define them) five to seven different editions that are effectively different games. This count doesn't even begin to consider print runs, half-editions, or repackages. And yes, some editions of D&D are compatible with others (or more compatible than with others) but effectively speaking, the rules change every decade or so in such a way that the previous version is rendered obsolete. Because of this, a large selection of a RPG's run life is selling updated versions of the same material. Updated versions of settings, updated versions of supplemental rules (psionics for example). Fluff may or may not be cross edition, but rules almost never are. The psionics handbook I bought in the 90's is useless in 2023 unless I'm running 2nd edition AD&D as well. RPGs effectively reset themselves every so many years and rarely have the rules been compatible enough that material from one version carries over to the next.

Compare that to a game like Magic: the Gathering where the rules have evolved greatly since its inception but every card in the game is still playable (barring some exceptions) and you can play a deck using only 1994 cards against a deck made of only 2023 cards and the game accommodate both. (Balance issues notwithstanding). New sets are effectively additive*, whereas new editions of D&D are replacing older ones. (* Magic, of course, has formats that range from rotating [old cards leave, new cards enter] and eternal [all cards within a threshold are playable]. YMMV depending on your format. Playing standard requires constant replacement, while playing Commander is purely additive)

My question is if that is in-fact a good thing? Does D&D need a clean slate ever-so-often to reset the board and introduce new ideas and build things from the ground up, or would it be better if there was a way to keep the rules from older editions usable so that every few years, we aren't repeating the Manual of the Planes or the Psionics Handbook or Big Book of Scary Dragons again? On the one hand, it does make large swaths of our collections outdated and balkanizes the player base into people who only play X edition, but on the other, keeping D&D compatible with older editions would require a lot of innovations made over the years to be lost or reduced to keep it compatible. (AC scaling being an example). If D&D was compatible across editions though, we wouldn't necessarily be waiting for the new edition to do a Planescape update book, we'd be looking at yet another expansion into the Planescape line that covers something we hadn't seen (or summarizes elements from different places).

Is there a way D&D could have been made additive rather than replacing itself every edition? I guess that's what 2024 is opting for. Or is RPGs one of those things that benefit from a good reset ever so often?

I personally don't see the need for table top, when they have top quality video games now. I mean the reason for table top was because video games hadn't been invented and when they were they were subpar for these types of games. Baldur's Gate 3 broke the mold IMO. It is nearly everything D&D fans have been asking for since the first D&D video game came out.
But since the question isn't asking should the game be done away with, I will say that it is odd that there have been so many editions. Basic D&D went through through three rewrites with three different authors (Mentzer, Holmes and Moldov). AD&D went through only two with TSR. D&D has went through four (3.0, 3.5, 4.0 and 5.0). Now it is headed to a sixth that will probably be digital only. smh
Some people will defend the authors as "tweaking" the game to better fit the player's needs, hence so many editions. I personally think it is because of poor leadership in the company and worse, developers probably have never played any version of the game. My personal thought is that D&D from 3.0 to now, has been written to look like a video game you can play on paper. In fact, IIRC that was specifically mentioned in the book for Epic Heroes. So what should be done? The answer is probably not much. No matter what they do, no one will be happy. In the beginning (1970's), players were complaining in Dragon Magazine that Magic Users (called Wizards today) were too powerful and could kill things before other PC's got a chance. So in AD&D1e they limited MU's by putting rounds and segments on their castings, as well as the requirement for material components.
IMO using the table to hit "descending" AC was superior than the "ascending" AC when WotC took over. CR ratings don't make much sense. I think they should have stayed with HD being one measure of how powerful a monster is. Gods should not be omnipotent and unkillable. They weren't presented this way in mythology. The Greek Gods were unkillable, but they could be wounded and feel pain just the same, as was shown when Ares was stabbed through the heart and cried out in pain. He had to go to Zeus to heal him.
So the unkillable god things started with 2e, from which they claimed the gods depicted in the new Legends and Lore books were simply avatars of the real gods who are too mighty to have physical bodies or whatever.
Another thing that needs to go is things like sorcery points, spell slots and the more silly things long rest and short rest. I get that spell casters need to sleep to get their spells back the next day. No problem with that, but why the need for points and slots? What was wrong with the TSR system? Why do non-spell cast classes need to do any kind of rest at all? It's too video gamey. Ki points for a Monk? Why? What was wrong with the TSR's version anyway? The Monk was never meant to be like the fighter class, so it was understandable that whatever damage they do would be in bursts. Like stuns to get more attacks and Quivering Palm which more than makes up for what the Fighters do. Also in TSR the Monk's armor got better with every level now it's dependent on your Dex/Wis modifiers? Why? Why not make that the baseline and then have it get better with each level, as it was originally written?
Like I said, it doesn't matter what they do, people will still complain. BF3 is the best example of any D&D video game, and people still make hateful videos about it.
 

nevin

Hero
the Unkillable thing depends on the mythos and tends to become assumed because of modern religions. but even in the Mythos's where gods are unkillable they can be defeated and imprisoned. so Unkillable doesn't really mean undefeatable. But I have yet to see a video game that has the depth and options of good RPG (any not just d&d). I still consider BG3 a shadowy lame version of actual tabletop RPG games. But better than what came before.
 

Remove ads

Top