Does Distracting Flare let you stealth?

[Samir]

Distracting Flare (Avenger u2) is a move action that reads "Effect: You become invisible and move your speed. You are invisible until the end of the movement."

Stealth checks are made at the end of a move action, or at the end of an action that involves moving.

My question is, which one happens first, the stealth check or the invisibility ending?

If I use Distracting Flare to move invisibly behind some cover (but not superior cover) can I make a stealth check from the invisibility and then remain hidden from the cover?

 

[Aulirophile]

RAW the order of operations would be select power > move > end movement > not invisible > stealth check (assuming you had the total/superior from another source). Stealth says you roll "after the action that involves moving", Flare says till the end of the movement, and the movement is contained inside the action. So you wouldn't get the stealth check.

Shame, that'd be a neat trick.

 

[Samir]

So I guess this power is really just for avoiding OAs... though for that purpose, Aspect of Agility seems much better. I suppose it's time to switch them out.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

If you're looking for some neat ways to Stealth your Avenger, try this combo:

Cloaked Steps + Persistant Tail + high Stealth

 

[aurance]

So I guess this power is really just for avoiding OAs... though for that purpose, Aspect of Agility seems much better. I suppose it's time to switch them out.

Not exactly. There's also this combo, if you're a Pursuit Avenger:

Distracting Flare -> move behind superior cover -> enemy moves away from you to another PC (since he has no idea where you are now) -> easy way to get Pursuit Avenger damage bonus.

 

[Samir]

Not exactly. There's also this combo, if you're a Pursuit Avenger:

Distracting Flare -> move behind superior cover -> enemy moves away from you to another PC (since he has no idea where you are now) -> easy way to get Pursuit Avenger damage bonus.

The question is, why not just do that with Aspect of Agility--shift 5 squares behind superior cover and roll stealth?

 

[aurance]

The question is, why not just do that with Aspect of Agility--shift 5 squares behind superior cover and roll stealth?

Because if you do that with Aspect of Agility, your enemy would be aware of exactly what path you took before you stealthed, and would move towards you anyway.

Whereas if you used Distracting Flare and stealthed, it would appear to your enemy simply that you'd disappeared, and presumably he'd move towards another of your party.

 

[aurance]

RAW the order of operations would be select power > move > end movement > not invisible > stealth check (assuming you had the total/superior from another source). Stealth says you roll "after the action that involves moving", Flare says till the end of the movement, and the movement is contained inside the action. So you wouldn't get the stealth check.

Shame, that'd be a neat trick.

Where does it say that Stealth happens after the action? Actually, the text for Stealth states "The check is usually at the end of a move action, but it can be at the end of any of the creature’s actions that involve the creature moving." That is not the same as after.

I am not at all sure now whether or not Distracting Flare counts as the cover necessary for the stealth check.

 

[Samir]

Because if you do that with Aspect of Agility, your enemy would be aware of exactly what path you took before you stealthed, and would move towards you anyway.

Whereas if you used Distracting Flare and stealthed, it would appear to your enemy simply that you'd disappeared, and presumably he'd move towards another of your party.

Why wouldn't this apply to Distracting Flare, too? Being invisible isn't the same thing as being hidden, so your enemy would hear you run behind a corner before losing track of you.

Unless the stealth check applied to the entire movement, in which case Aspect of Agility would work just as well.

A more logical approach is that the stealth check applies to the portion of the movement for which you have total concealment/superior cover, but that's more RAI.

 

[Brys]

RAW: I dunno.
But if a stealth check is only at the end of a movement and you move after taking a standard action, the enemy is gonna know right where you are anyway. I think you make the check at the end of the movement so you don't know how successful you are and decide your movement based on that. I think if you check passes, you should count as hidden for the entire portion of the movement for which you had SC/TC.

So, Distracting Flare with a successful stealth check at the end = enemy doesn't know where you are (assuming you have cover/concealment to remain hidden). If the check fails, enemy knows where you're at. Don't forget the penalty if you move more than 2 squares.

Let's look at it another way. Let's say you attack the monster and daze it. Then you run into the darkness and have total concealment and make your stealth check. Does the monster lose track of you when it lost sight of you? Or did the monster lose track of you after you ended your movement in some specific square within the area it can't see? Again, I don't know about RAW, but the first one makes the most sense to me. Otherwise the monster knows exactly what square to target with a ranged attack or where to charge (unless you have a way to use a minor action to move), and that seems to be against the intent.