D&D 5E Does Eberron need to be high fantasy?

[Onslaught]

One thing I feel that is important to note is that, even in 3e, Eberron was assumed to be lower powered than other settings - even the most powerful spellcaster in the game, Jaela Daran, head of the Silver Flame, is a level 16 cleric, but only while inside the main church, severely limiting her power. No NPC that I'm aware of is stronger than her; I doubt anyone has access to level 9 magic. And there are books that specifically state that Eberron was never designed to use epic levels.

So, in that respect, we're very much talking about a much lower level of magic than FR or Greyhawk, where we have several archmages and epic warriors freely wandering the world. In fact, I would argue that Eberron is very much an ideal setting for many games, in terms of level - most games end around level 11 or so, which is roughly the higher end of much of Eberron as well.

I don't have my books with me, but Eberron do have other powerful NPCs... however, most of them are more likely villains: Lord of Blades, King Kaius III, probably the head of the Inspired, the Lords of Dust...

Anyway, one of Eberron's premises was that characters matter, so they are supposed to be important and grow really powerfull.

Honestly, my biggest gripe with Eberron is the same one I have with most other D&D settings - they're almost all stuck in the Age of Man, with humans dominating so much of the space. How about some variation?

That's probably because most people like to play humans, not only because they are good mechanically, but also for empathy - for the lack of a better word.

But on the other hand Eberron did have a lot of space to play as different races. Goblinoids had their own empire and, even if it has fallen, one important country was basically remincescent of the old empire - you could have a party adventuring there, originating from there, etc.

Eberron had a lot of places for unusual parties and/or campaigns, from the top of mi mind:
* Unding Elves
* Xen'Drik, with tribal Drows
* Sarlona, with psionics, Kalashtar (the psionic race) and others more exotic
* the Mournland could easily make for an Warforged-only campaign

Not to mention the importance of the Dragonmarked Houses. Yeah, most of them were human, but we had a fair share of others in interesting roles: Sivis gnomes with comunication and transport, Kundarak dwarves with banking, Tharashk with detective half-orcs...

Even though humans had a lot of space, most other races had a fair share of the spotlight IMHO. Heck, even half-orcs who were "sons of rape" in basic 3.5e had a better place in the world.

Most of all, those things that seem prety puch like a collection of weired stuff really had a background, a reason to be there, history and lore that made them credible and interesting...

Did I say that I miss Eberron ?

 

[Shasarak]

One thing I feel that is important to note is that, even in 3e, Eberron was assumed to be lower powered than other settings - even the most powerful spellcaster in the game, Jaela Daran, head of the Silver Flame, is a level 16 cleric, but only while inside the main church, severely limiting her power. No NPC that I'm aware of is stronger than her; I doubt anyone has access to level 9 magic. And there are books that specifically state that Eberron was never designed to use epic levels.

I always thought that was a stupid design decision that made little to no sense.

 

[Onslaught]

I always thought that was a stupid design decision that made little to no sense.

One of FRs greatest complains was that the setting have too many powerful NPCs, chosen of the gods with Epic Levels. What's the point in fighting evil when we have Elmisnter?

The decision was made so those complains don't appear in the setting, I think it was a good one and in line with the "players are exceptional" design principle behind the setting

 

[Shasarak]

One of FRs greatest complains was that the setting have too many powerful NPCs, chosen of the gods with Epic Levels. What's the point in fighting evil when we have Elmisnter?

The decision was made so those complains don't appear in the setting.

Yes, exactly my point.

 

[Mercule]

I always thought that was a stupid design decision that made little to no sense.

One of the things I miss most about 1E AD&D is "name level" and the assumption that most characters semi-retired at that point. Spells above 5th level were ridiculously rare. That helped to keep some of the stupid "nova" down that caused so much of a problem in 3E and continues to inform the design of the game.

There's no need for "epic level" rules. Eberron has it right.

 

[Shasarak]

One of the things I miss most about 1E AD&D is "name level" and the assumption that most characters semi-retired at that point. Spells above 5th level were ridiculously rare. That helped to keep some of the stupid "nova" down that caused so much of a problem in 3E and continues to inform the design of the game.

Yes, because if it is one thing that 1e did not have, it was "Epic" level NPCs.

 

[Mephista]

That's probably because most people like to play humans, not only because they are good mechanically, but also for empathy - for the lack of a better word.

I'm going with weight of tradition. Its what happened with Lord of the Rings, and it kind of carried over into D&D. From the very beginning, D&D has been highly prejudiced towards humans as a whole, with other races being the "other." Hells, remember that in older edition, your race was your class. Its implicit in the "half-other" races. Its virtually always half-orc, -elf, -elemental, -fiend, etc with human implicitly being the other half. As if we can't have half-elf/half-orcs. Its also implicit in the idea that the human language "Common" is forced upon everyone else to speak.

D&D is just a game that favors humans as the "default," pure and simple. Has nothing to do with empathy (seriously, how difficult is it to role play as a dwarf, or a halfling? They're not even that different from real life humans in mindset!) or some idea they're better mechanically (the result of favoritism, not the cause).

Eberron was designed with other games and settings in mind. Its no accident that humans are large and generally in charge - that was a deliberate design decision. I find that, more and more, its just an old trope that is self perpetuating because its been done before, and its easy to keep doing instead of trying something new.

 

[Staffan]

One thing I feel that is important to note is that, even in 3e, Eberron was assumed to be lower powered than other settings - even the most powerful spellcaster in the game, Jaela Daran, head of the Silver Flame, is a level 16 cleric, but only while inside the main church, severely limiting her power. No NPC that I'm aware of is stronger than her; I doubt anyone has access to level 9 magic.

Three minor corrections:

1. That's supposed to be the highest-level good-aligned spellcaster. There are, well, not plenty but certainly a few more powerful ones around - Vol comes to mind.

2. There's one more spellcaster that has mentor/ally potential and who is higher level than Jaela Daran: Oalian, the Great Druid and leader of the Wardens of the Wood. Oalian is a 20th level druid (albeit Neutral rather than Good). However, Oalian shares Jaela's geographical limitation - because Oalian is an awakened tree.

3. Other continents also have more powerful casters. There are a few really powerful dragons over in Argonessen, Inspired in Sarlona, Undying Councilors in Aerenal, and who knows what in Xen'drik.

 

[Mercule]

Yes, because if it is one thing that 1e did not have, it was "Epic" level NPCs.

Eh. It had "name level", which served the same purpose, but in a different fashion. Instead of contriving odd new rules for high-level characters, 1E had several levels of spells to offer "epic" characters, rather than the contorted feats and other oddities of the ELH. Worth noting is that the ELH flattened hit point advancement in the same way that 1E "name level" did.

So, yeah, depending on how you want to talk "epic", 1E had epic characters. They just happened to be leveled in the teens, rather than twenties. Eberron just goes back to the idea that you don't have to go gonzo to be pretty powerful and that, at a certain point, power of one form begets power (and responsibility) of another form.

 

[Wrathamon]

I feel Eberron fits perfectly with the 5e ruleset.

I don't view eberron as High Magic. The PCs will be some of the most powerful magic wielding characters and only be rivaled by the Villains the DMs wish to use.

I view it as magic is prevalent but powerful magic is rare. There aren't legions of 12th level wizards running around.

Magic item shops in eberron only would have common items, rarely have uncommon and never have rare items. Those would only be in personal collections or controlled by the powerful organizations, or still stuck in some ruin that has yet to be explored.