Does Expeditious Retreat stack with Fly/Gaseous Form/Haste movement speeds?

[Forrester]

Curious as to hear both how you all play it, and what the "official" interpretation is. It would seem a bit strong, IMO, for Expeditious retreat to stack with the movement increase from Fly, and given the fact that it's doing something similar to Haste (improving speed), I'm not sure that they'd stack.

And then there's the Gaseous Form question.

So what do y'all think?

 

[AGGEMAM]

No. Normal speed only.

And those aren't normal movement speed, neither is Monks unarmored speed above 50 feet.

Btw, if it did affect those it would also double your falling speed, ouch!!

 

[Snofox]

ummmm

Haste and Expedious Retreat stack. Haste does not affect your rate of movement, only how many times you can move on your turn . As for Fly....not likely, Fly sets your aerial movement to a fixed speed (90') as opposed to being some extrapolation of your normal movement. If a creature that has flight as a normal mode of movement, ie a winged creature, casts Expedious Retreat, then yes, it would stack.


And then there's the Gaseous Form question????? ummm....lost me there

 

[Sigma]

I look at it this way. Expeditious Retreat is like having a pair of magic nikes that make you run fast, Fly is like being in a airplane. Your running speed in nikes has absolutely nothing to do with your speed in an airplane (unless it's some weird Flinstones airplane, which you move by running with your magic sneakers, but that's just too bizzarre to discuss).

Of course, I can't say that I've seen anything official to support my interpretation. By the wording in the SRD, Expeditious Retreat is an enhancement bonus to movement. Fly states that the spell's subject can fly and that doing so requires as much concentration as walking. So, I suppose the question is whether or not having flight on you effectively changes your movement to Fly (90'). I would say no because fly says that you are using the fly spell to move, which implies to me that it is outside of your normal movement. Just like when you ride a horse, you are using it to move, and an expeditious retreat cast on you wouldn't make the horse move faster.

 

[Forrester]

Re: ummmm

And then there's the Gaseous Form question????? ummm....lost me there

Okay, so we've got one vote in favor of E. Retreat working with "Haste", and one vote against.

The "Gaseous Form" question is whether the movement speed you get when you turn into a gassy cloud (10') can be sped up by Expeditious Retreat . . . to 20'.

 

[Snofox]

ahhhhhh

again, Expedious retreat doesn't affect "fixed" movement rates. if a halfing and a human both move at 10' in Gaseous Form, I'd say no go for stacking Expedious Retreat.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Haste does stack with ER, it's two entirely different effects.

Haste gives you an extra partial action.

ER doubles your movement.

Rereading the last paragraph of the ER description, it becomes clear that ER must also work with the Fly spell.

 

[Artoomis]

Here's waht I have in teh Guide:

9. What movement is affected by Expeditious Retreat? (Everything derived from based speed - walk, run, swim, etc.; movement on land only - walk, charge, run, etc.; all forms of movement - fly, etc.?)

My Best Advice: Double the character’s speed, regardless of type of movement.

The Rules:

The Sage:

Other WotC/former WotC opinions:

Argument For:

Argument Against: Literally taken, it allows you to make great leaps with your legs. Hence, any movement form that is based on leaping leg movement should be enhanced. So, this limits it to walk, charge, run, jump. However, since Swim speed is based on walking speed, it is ambiguous as to whether swimming is based on leg movement of “great leaps and bounds”. Other forms of movement (e.g. burrowing and flying) should not be enhanced.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Double the character’s speed, regardless of type of movement provided the character HAS a speed in this category.

fly bestows a flight speed of 90 feet - it is affected.

gaseous form =
The creature can fly (speed 10 ft manuverability perfect)

so expeditious retreat also alters this speed.

Monks and barbarians have their speed altered as a CLASS ability - supernaturally or otherwise. The doubling applies here as well.

an example of a situation in which you do NOT modify the movement rate is levitate.

NB - reason is that speed does not equal movement rate in all cases.

 

[CullAfulMoshuN]

This same question came up in our game recently but with respect to climb speed. I think we ended up deciding on No but I don't remember why, I think the DM just wanted to keep the character from reaching the opponent before he wanted him too.

I think we decided to rule that metaphysically the spell increases your stamina and the swiftness by which you can move, doubling only the affected creatures listed modes of movement, as it does not grant more skill or technique only enhanced stamina and swiftness. Therefore it would affect swim, climb, burrow, or fly speeds only if the affected creature had a listed movement rate of that type.

Thoughts?

CullAfulMoshuN....