Does hitting a milestone need more sizzle?

[tafkamhokie]

One of the things about 3e that bugs me (especially at higher levels) is the "15 minute workday" where you scry, buff, teleport, KABOOM, then go home and rest.

One of the things that was encouraging to me in my playtests of 4e is that a party can keep going through 3, 4, 5+ encounters with little problem.

But on about my 3rd playtest, I had an entire party save their dailies and action points for the final fight. If you thought the fully buffed 3e party was nasty, wait until you see what a 4e party with action points and dailies to burn can do.

Which gets me to my question. A milestone is completing two encounters. You get an action point at a milestone (but you get one after an extended rest too). Some magic items recharge at a milestone. If you were raised, you need to complete three milestones to remove your -1 penalty. More often than not, you are better off tactically going through one encounter, blowing your whole wad, then taking an extended rest...just like in 3e.

I've been thinking about adding a carrot of some kind to hitting a milestone to encourage characters to keep adventuring when feasible. Sure, you can construct an adventure that is working on a deadline, but those get old after awhile.

Would making the action point you get for hitting a milestone something like a Super Action Point that could be used to:

Reroll one attack roll, or opponent's attack roll against you, or
Recover one encounter power, or
Automatically make one saving throw, or
Automatically stabilize if unconscious, or
Gain an additional standard action

Would that be enough (or too much) of an incentive to not just do the rest-encounter-rest-encounter-etc. routine?

 

[GorTeX]

Your suggestions look good. I had been thinking of allowing more than one action point per encounter..so if you build up to 2 or 3, you could blow them all in one encounter later.

 

[Mort_Q]

Don't some magic item powers recharge at milestones?

 

[Duelpersonality]

But on about my 3rd playtest, I had an entire party save their dailies and action points for the final fight. If you thought the fully buffed 3e party was nasty, wait until you see what a 4e party with action points and dailies to burn can do.

Are you aware that a character can only spend one action point per encounter, so saving them up is kind of pointless? Also, characters don't gain action points after an extended rest, their APs are just reset to 1. So if they had 0 before an extended rest, they do gain 1, but if they have 5 before the rest they lose 4.

 

[Ourph]

It seems to me that one easy way to handle this is that PCs only get a milestone if they complete 2 encounter without an extended rest between. I guess that only extends the workday to 2 encounters instead of 1, but it helps a little.

 

[NebtheNever]

I've come up with (or seen) three possible solutions to this issue that I like. The first is to reset action points to zero after an extended rest; the second is let PCs use more than one action point per encounter; and the third is to give some sort of experience reward for reaching a milestone.

Although this issue bugs me, I don't think it will actually be that big of a deal in my group, as we all understand the importance of realism in such a scenario. Heroes and adventurers simply do not rest after a single encounter. They fight on, they don't give up, and they save the day.

It's not necessary to insert some sort of time limit into every adventure to ensure the PCs keep going. All that's required is a fluid, living world. If the PCs keep resting after every foray into the nearby caves where the marauding Orcs live, then you have the Orcs do more damage to the the town or you have the NPC leaders of the town get fed up with these lazy adventurers and hire other ones that will do the job. There are ways of motivating PCs, and those ways don't have to be arbitrary or repetitive.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

It seems to me that one easy way to handle this is that PCs only get a milestone if they complete 2 encounter without an extended rest between. I guess that only extends the workday to 2 encounters instead of 1, but it helps a little.

I thought that was the rule!?

 

[tafkamhokie]

Are you aware that a character can only spend one action point per encounter, so saving them up is kind of pointless? Also, characters don't gain action points after an extended rest, their APs are just reset to 1. So if they had 0 before an extended rest, they do gain 1, but if they have 5 before the rest they lose 4.

I know you can only spend one per encounter...which is part of the incentive to rest after every encounter provided the plot will allow it. And let's face it, the Tomb of Horrors has been sitting there for 500 years...the next room can wait another 6 hours.

What happened was the party spent round 1 maneuvering into position, then on round two every player except one unloaded with the encounter power - action point - daily power combo that totally destroyed what should have been a difficult (if not overwhelming) encounter.

Now, I realize the ability to pull this off with teleport/word of recall type spells being rituals now (so you can't just hit the panic button in the middle of a dungeon) is a bit tougher. I'm just looking for some sort of karmic carrot that would make adventurers want to press on instead of always wanting to take on every encounter at full strength...where full strength = full hp, all dailies, and 1 action point.

In going with the action movie theme of 4e, it would seem reasonable that the farther the heroes press on, the more improbable and amazing things they pull off to win the day. I think a more powerful action point that can only be earned by reaching a milestone in between extended rests might help.

 

[Tervin]

I'm just looking for some sort of karmic carrot that would make adventurers want to press on instead of always wanting to take on every encounter at full strength...where full strength = full hp, all dailies, and 1 action point.

My solution is the cruel one: Keep the adventurers stressed and scared. If they keep reasting early - take the encounter to them instead. Have them attacked while they are resting, or while they are on their way back to out of the dungeon/forest/whatever. Often make sure that they realise that more opponents will be on their way in a few minutes - or perhaps that the enemy is gathering forces and encounters might be a lot harder the next day than they are today. Simply making their mission urgent is a also good idea, resting can sometimes mean that they fail.

As long as the storylines and dungeons are dynamic, players are kept from being cheesy cowards. And as long as the opposition is kept at a reasonable level, the players will probably prefer it that way.

 

[tallyrand]

Don't forget that you have to wait at least 12 hours after an extended rest before you can begin another. If your party really wants to only have 1 encounter per 18 hours...