Does hitting a milestone need more sizzle?

[chriton227]

Would making the action point you get for hitting a milestone something like a Super Action Point that could be used to:

Reroll one attack roll, or opponent's attack roll against you, or
Recover one encounter power, or
Automatically make one saving throw, or
Automatically stabilize if unconscious, or
Gain an additional standard action

I like the idea of giving milestones something extra, my only thing would be to make sure you don't step on anyone's toes in the process. For example, allowing a super action point to cause an enemy to reroll and attack may discourage players from playing halflings, since anyone can use a SAP to do the same thing as thier racial ability. I would probably go with something outside the action point mechanic, like allowing a daily ability to recharge or regaining a healing surge, or possibly allowing a choice between a couple options like that.

 

[Lackhand]

Fighting very well/badly (Natural 20/1) is something different than items recharging after two combats, no matter how much time lies between those combats or what is happening in them.

Well, not precisely. I guess I didn't make my point very clearly, let me try again.

My point was that when you roll a twenty on a hit for your fighter, you will generally (well, I will generally) whoop for joy and begin lording it over the DM at how awesome your luck was.
Also, you fighter hits critically. The joy that I feel in these events is due entirely to the magic numbers 2 and 0, and very little with the actual triumph over my foes. In short, it's truly metagame; in video games with critical hits, I don't get the same thrill.
It's just seeing those magic numbers together that makes me happy. It's Skinnerian conditioning, really.

So, too, are items recharging. A night's rest puts them back to normal, so it's not quite "no matter how much time passes". It's also not "however many fights you get into in a day", because the more fights you get, the more they function; which means it's basically when you're not under stress, they slow down.

I really don't have a problem with stressful situations eliciting greater performance. YMMV.

After a little while playing with it, it'll just fade into the woodwork -- the player's don't track it anyway, the DM does, and so they will just occasionally be told that they've got a new action point and use of their items.

Also... What items do recharge on a milestone? I know you can squeeze an add'l daily power out on a milestone, but I haven't heard of any powers that are explicitly milestone-gated.

 

[Alweth]

If your desire is to try and keep your adventurers going on without resting after every fight or two, how about this idea:

Having dailies represents being fully rested and prepared, while action points represent being warmed up. So, an extended rest sets your action points to zero. Instead of getting action points at milestones, you get actions points in the following situation:

If its your first encounter since you last had an extended rest, you get an action point starting on your 5th turn or end of the encounter (whichever comes first), if you didn't have one at the start of the encounter. Otherwise, you get an action point starting on your 3rd turn or end of the encounter (whichever comes first), if you didn't have one at the start of the encounter.

So, the idea is that you can do an extended rest, but then it will take you longer to get warmed up in the next fight. Sure, this system kind of encourages you to use your action point as soon as you get it, if you get it before the fight is over, but that prevents you from blowing your points immediately on the next fight.

What do you think?

 

[unan oranis]

Reading the title of the OP, I thought this discussion was a call to add some description to the reaching of a milestone.

I'ts an adrenaline/moral/momentum kind of effect, if I don't have any improvised speeches about how grim and determined they are or whatever I'll probably just ask the players to describe how/why their characters are pumped to go kick some butt.


As for the OP's actual question; I think the problems are these:

1. It may be strategic, but boring and overly meta-gamey to rest between each and every encounter, AP's may not be enough incentive.

2. Providing additional rewards/penelties to the AP system is some pretty delicate business, especially this early in most peoples campaigns.


Obviously, the first thing to do is just let it roll for now and see if AP's work as is.

But if it were an issue, I'd hit two birds with one stone. Reward xp at each milestone, and reset the xp tally to zero upon resting.

That way you may end up with the situation of "just one more battle and we could truley call this day a victory, or we can retreat with the loss of some honor/ballz." which seems like the ideal set up for a gang of tough hombres who may be biting off more than they can chew.

licking your wounds = smart, conservative and slow advancment
busting down doors = brash, risky, but victory yields power and confidence

 

[mattdm]

Your suggestions look good. I had been thinking of allowing more than one action point per encounter..so if you build up to 2 or 3, you could blow them all in one encounter later.

I'm surprised no one else chimed in on this one. It's exactly what I'd been thinking I'll look towards if it becomes an issue in my game.

 

[Aegir]

It seems to me that one easy way to handle this is that PCs only get a milestone if they complete 2 encounter without an extended rest between. I guess that only extends the workday to 2 encounters instead of 1, but it helps a little.

I thought that was the rule!?

I haven't seen this confirmed anyplace, so I'll go ahead: he's exactly right, a milestone is two consecutive encounters without an extended rest.

If this rule needs any changing (and I'm not touching the "not realistic/breaks immersion" argument, I don't much care about that angle so I won't extend the topic), its that a milestone stays the same, and the 1 AP/encounter stays the same, but so long as you ride that wave, you gain an AP after every encounter. In other words, two consecutive encounters triggers a milestone and you gain an AP, third one without extended rest, another AP. Fourth, another AP... and on and on and on.

I'm not convinced it needs a change, but IMO its something to consider.

 

[keterys]

How about:
1) You are reset to 0 action points by an extended rest, and gain 1 action point per encounter
2) After an extended rest, class daily powers are unready and cannot be used. Each encounter, you may ready one Daily as a free action at any point during the encounter.

So, no alpha strike capability and the party has to go a good 3 or 4 fights before it can actually tap all its resources.

 

[Serendipity]

Don't forget that you have to wait at least 12 hours after an extended rest before you can begin another. If your party really wants to only have 1 encounter per 18 hours...

In the Xendrik game I was playing in, we were so habitually biting off more than we could chew that we became the MASTERS of bolting down the doors and locking ourselves inside for extended periods so that we could do just that.
Not something I'll miss about 3.x really.