Does Mage of the Arcane Order make it easier to qualify for Loremaster?

[Jack Simth]

One of the benefits of the Mage of the Arcane Order prestige class is access to the Spellpool, which permits a character to call and cast any spell in the PHB that isn't forbidden for some reason (such as a specialist wizard or DM fiat that the spell isn't there; also subject to a few other caveats - must be able to cast a spell of that level, must have a level of access through the PrC that permits access to spells of that level).

The Loremaster PrC requires that the character be able "... to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher" (Source: Online SRD).

Is it my imagination, or can a Mage of the Arcane Order, who knows no divination spells of his own, use the ability to cast divination spells taken from the Spellpool qualify for Loremaster?

Secondary: Does this apply to other prestige classes?

 

[Li Shenron]

I would never allow spellpool to count as "known spells".

There was a debate among us about what is a "known spell" for a wizard, since without his spellpook he can only prepare Read Magic, but we all agree that it only includes spells which the wizard has scribed (IIRC he can prepare also from borrowed spellbooks only spells which he has scribed in his own).

 

[Thanee]

You can also cast spells from a scroll... a 1st level character is technically able to do so.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jack Simth]

I would never allow spellpool to count as "known spells".

With Loremaster, the requirement is not listed as "known spells"; it is listed as "able to cast", unlike Archmage (which specifies "Knoweledge of 5th level or higher" spells). It's probably a difference of classes that are normally permitted into the class - a Cleric, for example, can't really be said to "know" his spells (at least not in the same sense the a wizard, sorceror, or bard does) but a cleric can cast spells of up to X level, provided his level is high enough to have a slot at that level, the cleric has a sufficiently high wisdom score, and it is on a list the cleric has access to.

You can also cast spells from a scroll... a 1st level character is technically able to do so.

Bye
Thanee

Or a wand, or wonderous item, or certain other nifties; but consider, a character can use a benefit from a magic item to qualify for such things as feats (such as a +Str belt to qualify for Power Attack) with the caveat that if the character ever loses access to the item (such as that belt of strength) then they also lose access to the feat it was used as a pre-requisite for. With a scroll, if the character ever used it, the character would no longer qualify.

With the spellpool, it's available until the caster lets his spellpool debt get too high, doesn't pay his dues, doesn't show when required at the headquarters, et cetera - simply casting a spell from the spellpool leaves it available. Would you deny a cleric the Loremaster benifits because he no longer has at least seven different divination spells prepared (or deny him entry to loremaster for that reason)? He could still cast them, it would just have to wait until tomorrow....

 

[Li Shenron]

As it happens to many, you're reading too much into the wording of the description. But I am quite sure that even you don't believe that this is how it is supposed to work. If you're doing this just for the fun of it, then it's ok but if you're just trying to change a prestige class which you'd prefer to work differently, do it without the unnecessary attempt to demonstrate that the rest of the world is wrong in how to play it.

 

[WizarDru]

With Loremaster, the requirement is not listed as "known spells"; it is listed as "able to cast", unlike Archmage (which specifies "Knoweledge of 5th level or higher" spells). It's probably a difference of classes that are normally permitted into the class - a Cleric, for example, can't really be said to "know" his spells (at least not in the same sense the a wizard, sorceror, or bard does)

Well, that would be up to individual DMs to decide, but I personally believe you're playing sophistry to get a desired result. The spellpool is a class feature that gives variable access to available spells, not unlike a ring of Spell Storing. They aren't casting the spell...someone else cast it into the spell pool. They're just withdrawing from the guild's bank, as it were. So they aren't able to cast the spell, they're able to draw upon the pool to "borrow" it, with the promise of returning something of similar power later. Clerics know spells just like wizards et al, they just always know all spells available for them...they certainly know spells from their domains, just like arcanists have a dedicated list; in that sense, they are the same, IMHO.

 

[Jack Simth]

As it happens to many, you're reading too much into the wording of the description. But I am quite sure that even you don't believe that this is how it is supposed to work. If you're doing this just for the fun of it, then it's ok

Definately the above, yes.