Does Medium Armor Need a Buff?

[MG.0]

So MG.0, what does Medium Armor afford a character that Heavy isn't?

A chance not to drown when he falls out of a boat? He'll be out of his armor in 1 minute, vs. 5 for the guy in heavy. I could probably come up with other stuff given enough time.

 

[Barantor]

A chance not to drown when he falls out of a boat? He'll be out of his armor in 1 minute, vs. 5 for the guy in heavy. I could probably come up with other stuff given enough time.

Also not letting folks sleep in full plate without exhaustion.

 

[MG.0]

While save or die things might be satisfactory to a person trying to present the game as a simulation, it does not function at all in a narrative sense and is fundamentally bad for game play.

I could not disagree with this more strongly. It can certainly make narrative sense for a character to die...what you mean is it doesn't fit your pre-determined narrative. Again, I've found players would rather play a game with a narrative where there is a real chance of failure than one in which every character can happily make it though the story despite acting like a total tool.

It knocks both a player and a protagonist out of a story due to an event that was almost certainly not meant to actually be an important or meaningful moment. Just a random trap coupled with a single poor roll.

Did I say anything about just inflicting random traps on characters à la 1st edition poisoned needles? No, it is best used in situations that make sense and add to the game narrative.

And for that single poor roll?
An actual real life human being is out of the game for the rest of the night and either goes home or finds something else to do away from everyone else as they are no longer part of the group activity.

This is why my players are recommended to either have a backup character that can be introduced, or they can control NPC's or hierlings for the remainder of the session. Nobody sits out unless they want to.

Within the story, a protagonist that had a story to tell now is unable to fulfill the story to its conclusion which is ultimately unsatisfactory to all participants in telling that story. All progress made by that character towards telling their story ends abruptly without satisfaction or meaning.
Moreover, all investment the player has made in that character so far is lost and they are, hopefully, going to be willing to make a new character-- but I guarantee you that their willingness to invest in that next character is going to be greatly diminished as they will soon just see the characters as expendable numbers on a piece of paper that will just be crumpled up and tossed away on the first bad die roll. You will see less and less and less effort put into character details like name, background story, description and so forth-- because you'll have made it clear you couldn't care less about any of it, its just another faceless, nameless lemming to go pop on a random die roll.
The rest of the group is now down a member for the rest of the adventure leading to a higher probability that the above to events will occur again before the adventure has finished.

Now you've gone over the top. You make it sound like I'm asking a guy to roll a DEX save to avoid cutting his throat while shaving. If characters wind up in a save or die situation, it is usually because they placed themseleves there as a calculated risk (if playing well) or out of carelessness (if not). Character death in D&D is only rarely permanent so your melodramatic exposition falls rather flat. While I certainly don't allow resurrections at the corner drugstore in every little hamlet, going on a quest to restore a fallen comrade often leads to a lot of fun in my experience.

Now, granted, there needs to be risk in the game for it to capture attention and be fun. If one is guaranteed the best result regardless of their choice of actions, then the actions themselves have no meaning.

Which is exactly what I was saying.

BUT, prior to putting down the planned event where you are going to call for the entire group to make a single die roll with-- let's be generous-- an 80% chance of success, with 5 people in your group did you really mean for this to be the point in the game where you fully intended one of your players is going to leave the group unsatisfied and likely a bit bitter with less willingness to ever engage in your game again?
Because if that wasn't what you wanted happening at that particular moment in the game, you royally screwed the goose there by setting up that planned event. You virtually guaranteed a result you didn't want all for the sake of trying to make the game more "exciting" by introducing greater risk... forgetting that what you are risking is a player disengaging from a game that lasts hours a session.

Planned event? I don't railroad characters. They make choices and sometimes those choices lead them to bad ends. You are certainly making a lot of ungrounded assumptions about how I run my games. My players enjoy themselves. Yes, it sucks when a character dies, but it usually isn't the absoulte end and it can result in some fantastic unplanned stories. I often find the unintended consequences are the memorable ones. The carefully crafted DM plotlines and NPC's often fall victim to the greater enjoyment to be had from serendipitous chaos.

 

[MG.0]

Also not letting folks sleep in full plate without exhaustion.

Yes, this is another that I use. I rule that you cannot have restful sleep in any armor. It makes characters really think about where they take those long rests. A surprise visit by some wandering monsters could be a disaster:

Don't worry, the paladin will join the battle in...let's see... only 100 rounds! Just keep them busy until then!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Anyway - my take is that medium armor has it's place. It's identical AC to light armor + maxed out dex (without a feat). It's only 1 point off heavy armor without a feat. Several classes get proficiency in it. Dex is still useful even when not maxed out, because it touches so many things (saves, initiative, skills).

If you have a really high dex, do you want to wear light armor? Yes.
If you have a really low dex AND a mid-high strength, do you want to wear heavy armor? Yes.
If you have a mid-range dex, or have low strength, then you probably want to wear medium armor.
If you found a suit of magical half plate, then you probably want to wear medium armor.
If you want to sneak somewhere, you probably don't want to wear heavy armor - if you would normally wear heavy armor, your best bet is to swap for medium armor.

I rule that you cannot have restful sleep in any armor.

Which has been discussed to death, and is more than a little silly, when compared with the typical resting conditions of an adventuring party in the rough.

However, I would be keen on introducing a 'well rested' condition of some sort or otherwise encouraging adventurers sleeping in an inn to genuinely take it easy. Or just hand out inspiration to any heavy armor wearer who chose to take it off before a nighttime encounter.

 

[MG.0]

Which has been discussed to death, and is more than a little silly, when compared with the typical resting conditions of an adventuring party in the rough.

Not silly at all. I've done a lot of camping including sleeping 'in the rough' and it can be comfortable enough. Sleeping in any kind of armor would be uncomfortable in the extreme. There's a reason it takes so long to put on and take off - straps, buckles, plates, etc. Any character trying it would gain a level of exhaustion for not sleeping properly and gain no benefit. If I had characters regularly resting in 'typical conditions' equivalent to trying to sleep in a suit of armor, they wouldn't be getting benefit from that rest either.

 

[Xeviat]

Nothing in the rules say that you can't sleep in heavy armor or you suffer a penalty to swim in heavy armor. Just saying, those are house rules. They're sensical house rules, I freely admit, but they aren't inherent parts of the system so they really shouldn't be part of a discussion of the system.

So what I'm seeing is that medium armor is not intended for dedicated combatants. It is meant to shore up the AC of lower str, lower dex characters. The melee characters who do use it (barbarian, valor bard, str ranger) are meant to have lower AC, as they don't have heavy armor but with a 14 Dex they are at even AC (though with stealth penalty) with light armor?

I'm still having a hard time reconciling that with the low levels. If you have a 14 Dex and chainshirt then you have identical AC as 16 Dex and studded leather; breastplate matches with 18 Dex. 14 Dex and scale mail matches Chainmail; half-plate matches splint. That's the part I'm not seeing.

If I didn't care what other people's opinions was, though, I'd just add in a 3rd tier of medium armors and be done with it. I'm looking for a reason as to why this is. Why does the Str Ranger have better AC than the Dex ranger until level 8?

 

[Barantor]

A big issue as well is expense and availability. I don't use Forgotten Realms, so it isn't a normality to just be able to acquire full plate at any city in a shop without investing time and effort in measurements etc.

I also use encumbrance which can affect the overall carrying capacity of the group if your high Str character is also carrying a lot of gear on top of their armor.

 

[bid]

I don't see what the problem is.

Dex20 has AC 17 with studded armor
Dex14 has AC 17 with half plate (16 with breastplate)
Str15 has AC 18 with full plate

Why should a character not willing to invest in enough Str/Dex get the same protection and the same stealth advantage?

 

[Saeviomagy]

It takes so long to put on and take off because it is well fitted. It takes a good long while to put on a tux properly - would you argue that sleeping in it makes you 1/7th of the way to dead?

Long story short, sleeping in armor is uncomfortable, but not to the level you seem to think, and there's multiple historical references that knights on the front lines did just that, and didn't keel over simply from doing it for a week. There are also modern day soldiers who do so (which is different from full plate, but not so different from lighter stuff).

The main issues with sleeping in your armor (and then going all day in the same armor) are basically the same as if you never change your clothes - you'll be rank, and your armor is going to start to rot and degrade.

I'd suggest that there are plenty more realistic deterrents to wearing armor all the time than needing to have people slowly die from wearing it in bed.