D&D (2024) Does the concept of subspecies of Elves come across as racist to you

[Frozen_Heart]

Personally it doesn't come across as racist, as sub-species are very different to human ethnicities. Irl some sub-species can't even breed together to make fertile offspring (mainly equines as their chromosomes are a disaster).

However I do see how others would find them to be racist. Many people seemed to think of the DnD playables as all ethnicities of the same species (which the 'race' terminology didn't help with). And with 'subraces' that's even worse.

Honestly it's impossible to make everyone happy. As some people still want stat disparity between genders while other people want all species to be made purely cosmetic.

 

[buffyouup]

The concept of the existence of such a question comes across as racist to me.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

The definition of "subspecies" is they are all members of the same "species", thus can and do reproduce normal offspring together.

Usually, but not always. Sometimes you do get subspecies which can't reproduce to make fertile offspring.

However given that elves can apparently interbreed with humans in DnD, I'd say it's pretty damn likely that they can interbreed with other subspecies of elves.

 

[Corinnguard]

Yeah and people keep trying to make background into that, and just no. If 5e ever adopts culture as such, it needs to add it, not replace backgrounds which speak to how you grew up or what you do or what was your catalyst to become an adventurer.

Background isn't culture, it's basically the non-adventuring job you had before destiny stepped in and set you on the path of becoming an adventurer. If you grew up in a place like Waterdeep, and lived and learned amongst it's diverse inhabitants, then you grew up within it's culture.

I wish 5e would adopt culture. I think D&D almost did back in 3e when the FR Campaign setting book (pages 28-32-Character Region) had that table which described the perks your character could get from being a certain region in Faerun.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Background isn't culture, it's basically the non-adventuring job you had before destiny stepped in and set you on the path of becoming an adventurer. If you grew up in a place like Waterdeep, and lived and learned amongst it's diverse inhabitants, then you grew up within it's culture.

I know all of this, I indicated that knowledge in the post you’re replying to. My whole point is that people often propose putting culture into background, having that choic just become background and replace what is there now, or even try to act like culture is already there.

I wish 5e would adopt culture. I think D&D almost did back in 3e when the FR Campaign setting book (pages 28-32-Character Region) had that table which described the perks your character could get from being a certain region in Faerun.

4e kinda did with its backgrounds, but muddied it with having actual backgrounds as well. Honestly, if they’d started out with Themes, they could have used them for backgrounds and left the other widget for culture.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I would definitely be nice to separate background and culture. But as cultures are setting specific, it doesn't work if you're insisting on the PHB being 'setting neutral'.

And that's not even going into the complete minefield of what to name cultures. Can't exactly call a stereotypical dwarven culture 'dwarven'.

 

[cranberry]

It's really all about the wording.

I'm sure someone can come up with an alternative to "sub" that won't bother people so much.

Personally, I don't care either way.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The term isnt the best. ''Sub'' somewhat gives the idea of ''lesser variant''.

I'd go with a purely mechanical or gamist term, like:

• Archetype (if subclasses are class archetypes, subspecies can be species' archetypes''
• Themes, to reuse a term from 4e that isnt used in 5e.
• Persona
• Type

etc

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Sucks how the word 'sub' has been changed to mean 'inferior'. As that's not what it's meant to mean.

A subspecies isn't inferior to a species. Any more than a species is inferior to a genus.

 

[Alzrius]

The term isnt the best. ''Sub'' somewhat gives the idea of ''lesser variant''.

It really doesn't, simply because when you have subspecies listings, they collectively encompass the entirety of that species. That means that every character is a subspecies of some sort; there's no version of an elf who can accurately say "I'm a member of the standard elf species, unlike you subspecies elves."