Does the ranged character stink?

[mcgeedis]

I have a buddy that said he wanted to build a ranged character for our current campaign. He is current a third level human Ranger/Scout/Fighter. His current ability scores are as follows:


STR: 13
DEX: 16
CON: 15
INT: 14
WIS: 15
CHA: 11

His current feats are Dodge, Mobility, Track, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot.

Ever since this campaign started, all he has been doing has been whining about how his character stinks because ranged characters were just not meant to be good. I think he may be getting discouraged because there are some really highpowered low level characters in our game right now (VoP druid, Swordsage/Warblade, Dwarven Barbarian for example).

There has got to be a way for him to become a better ranged weapon bow masterm right? We are allowed all the "Complete" books as core, and PHB 2, as well as Frostburn. Spell Compendium made the cut too. We are allowed one feat, spell, magic item, class or prestge class every level as non core. Also, we can accrue action points that we can turn in for feats, permanent ability score modifiers, and other miscellaneous odds and ends. We are also allowed to trade in feats and retrain every level as outlined in the PHB2.

Does anyone have any advice for my buddy? He is generally a roleplay oriented player, but I think his lack of combat ability is bumming him out. And not too mention, I have never seen a truly awesome ranged character!

 

[Venator]

Theres a few really solid ranged builds out there. Some of them include:

Fighter
Ranger/Scout/OotBI
Scout/Rogue/OotBI
Cleric

 

[blargney the second]

I had a lot of fun playing a Human Ranger/Scout with Crossbow Sniper (PHB2), Rapid Reload, and Swift Hunter (CSc). Add in Goggles of Foefinding and Skirmisher Boots (both MIC) for good measure. At 6th tack on Improved Skirmish (CSc) and he'll be laughing. Make sure Tumble is fully tanked up every level.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, he chose dodge and mobility for a ranged character - a strange decision. One advantage of a ranged character is they do not have to move to get into melee, they can just stand there and take a full action to plunk away at the enemy. But dodge and mobility are intended for frequent movement next to enemies. Even with the skirmish bonus, you still are not likely to be walking past enemies all that often.

In other words, I think if he wants to play a ranged character that is effective at low levels, he has to take more ranged feats earlier.

 

[mcgeedis]

Well, he chose dodge and mobility for a ranged character - a strange decision.

I agree. I'm not sure what the thinking was there. And as I said, I think that since he is a heavy roleplayer over combat, he took those two feats first, then after seeing how the melee angle was covered, he then decided he was going to go ranged??? Who knows?

But as I said - our DM is pretty cool and will allow him to trade in his feats and retrain if needed.

 

[1500run]

why scout? rgr2/ftr1 would give him rapid shot, or rgr1/ftr2 would give him an extra feat. as someone else said, why even bother with dodge & mobility? shot-on-the-run is way overrated, since it's only one attack; archers are strong when they fire multiple times in a round. max out tumble instead to avoid AoOs when you need to get away. or ditch ranger altogether and play a ftr/rog, or even a straight-up fighter. in a melee-weak party, a heavily armored fighter with a longbow (or xbow), weapon specialization, and well-chosen feats can wreak havoc at any distance. a ftr/rog can use a longbow, can tumble as a class skill, and can balance sneak attack damage and feat selection. a ranger is always good for favored enemy bonuses and a BAB and saves boost. but your friend's current build is pretty bad; perhaps he'll be allowed to retrain a few things?

I have a buddy that said he wanted to build a ranged character for our current campaign. He is current a third level human Ranger/Scout/Fighter. His current ability scores are as follows:


STR: 13
DEX: 16
CON: 15
INT: 14
WIS: 15
CHA: 11

His current feats are Dodge, Mobility, Track, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot.

Ever since this campaign started, all he has been doing has been whining about how his character stinks because ranged characters were just not meant to be good. I think he may be getting discouraged because there are some really highpowered low level characters in our game right now (VoP druid, Swordsage/Warblade, Dwarven Barbarian for example).

There has got to be a way for him to become a better ranged weapon bow masterm right? We are allowed all the "Complete" books as core, and PHB 2, as well as Frostburn. Spell Compendium made the cut too. We are allowed one feat, spell, magic item, class or prestge class every level as non core. Also, we can accrue action points that we can turn in for feats, permanent ability score modifiers, and other miscellaneous odds and ends. We are also allowed to trade in feats and retrain every level as outlined in the PHB2.

Does anyone have any advice for my buddy? He is generally a roleplay oriented player, but I think his lack of combat ability is bumming him out. And not too mention, I have never seen a truly awesome ranged character!

 

[Arkhandus]

Dodge and Mobility were stupid, stupid feat choices for him. He should've taken Rapid Shot and Manyshot, or Rapid Shot and Far Shot, or Rapid Shot and Weapon Focus in his ranged weapon. He'd be almost twice as effective if he only bothered to use Rapid Shot.

He also should've put a better score into Strength, and by now should own a composite longbow that adds his Strength bonus to damage (or, if wanting to be effective at closer ranges, he should've gotten Quick Draw as one of his feats along with Rapid Shot, and put his best score into Strength, and started wielding javelins, throwing axes, bolas, or spinning javelins; the latter are from Arms & Equipment Guide).

He's a poor ranged combatant because he hasn't bothered to make himself effective at doing damage. He's like a fighter who didn't bother with anything more than 13 Strength, and didn't bother with Power Attack, and didn't bother with Weapon Focus or Cleave. Or a spiked chain wielding fighter who didn't bother with Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, nor Weapon Focus or Power Attack.

The fact he chose to use a ranged weapon is only making him marginally less effective than he'd be with a greatsword, because he's wasted his feats and ability scores on being ineffective.

Remember that part of the advantage of a ranged combatant is that they're at less risk; they're not up close and personal with their foes, so they're in less immediate danger. His high Constitution is a waste; he only needs average Constitution, and should've put that score into Strength.



So......he either needs to rebuild his character, or shift his focus.
A flanking-oriented Rogue who relies on Sneak Attack, and sometimes Spring Attack after 6th-level, might be more effective with the way he's built his character so far. So multiclass into Rogue. Pick up Spring Attack as the 6th-level feat later. Rely on melee combat with Sneak Attack, flanking with an ally. Wield a greatsword or glaive (depending on if he'd prefer a bit more damage or the advantage of 10-foot reach).

Once he reaches 6th-level and takes Spring Attack, he'll be able to make use of his Skirmish ability from the Scout (I don't know when the class gets that ability, but it doesn't matter, it's of less importance than Sneak Attack at this point with his PC). Dash past an opponent, moving through a flanking position with an ally, attacking the opponent with Sneak Attack and Skirmish combined.

Maybe take another level of Ranger as well, for the two-weapon fighting style, to be more effective in melee with full-attack actions using Sneak Attack and two weapons, like a longsword and short sword. When using that set up, only rely on the greatsword or glaive when intending to use Spring Attack; when it looks like the opponent won't be too dangerous in close combat, he can afford to just use his longsword and short sword, moving into a flanking position and unleashing Sneak Attack full-attack actions with both weapons.

At later levels he could take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, or Quick Draw, or Two-Weapon Defense, or Improved Critical, or Rapid Shot for the occasions when he'd actually have a reason to bother with ranged combat, despite the fact that he messed up his build for ranged combat.

 

[RangerWickett]

It depends on whether the game is dungeon-heavy.

My preferred ranged combatant build is ranger-based, with mounted combat. Take 4 levels of ranger, get your animal companion (a horse), then take a level of fighter, then get Beastmaster from Complete Adventurer, so your horse starts to be a bad-ass. You now have superior range and mobility to most enemies, so as long as you aren't forced into a confined area, you should be good. Damage output is still a bit low, but not terrible.

Preferred feats are point blank shot, precise shot, mounted combat (but not mounted archery -- you probably won't need to be firing arrows while galloping too often), and weapon focus. Maybe natural bond, too, if you want your horse to be more of a tough guy. The build decays at higher levels, but a low to mid levels it's great.

But only outdoors. Indoors, carry an axe and a heavy shield.

 

[Zaruthustran]

With Dodge and Mobility (and skirmish damage) he can only be planing on taking Shot On the Run.

Anyway! I see at least two builds for this guy:

Crossbowman (low Str, so forget about Str bow)
This could be a cool Band of Brothers style soldier build. Take the "Back on Your Feat" skill trick from Complete Scoundrel that lets you quickly stand from prone without provoking AoOs. Then, use Shot on the Run to dart from cover to cover, dropping to the ground at the end of your run (+4 bonus to AC vs. ranged attacks/return fire!). Note that unlike a bow, you can fire and reload a crossbow while prone without penalty.

So for the build, take a second level of fighter for Rapid Reload. Then take the dreaded 3rd level of fighter, and then the fourth level of fighter at CL 6. Choose Crossbow Sniper (dex bonus to damage) as your fighter bonus feat, and Shot on the Run as your sixth level feat.

With so many fighter levels, you might as well keep going. At CL7 pick up a 2nd level of ranger for Rapid Shot, then go fighter twice more so you can get Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization at CL 9.


Or

Bladethrower (take advantage of that Int!)
Take a level of swashbuckler for Weapon Finesse, fighter for Quickdraw, and ranger for TWF. At sixth level take Rapid Shot as your feat. Then go with two more levels of swashbuckler for insightful strike--this gives +Int bonus to damage with all finessable weapons (not limited to melee). Put your 4th level stat bump in Str. With TWF and Rapid Shot, you'll be throwing a lot of hardware, and as long as that hardware is daggers or other light weapons, they'll be hitting at +4 (+2 Str, +2 Int). Not huge by any means, but

 

[Darklone]

Arkhandus was pretty right, his main mistakes were the low strength and strange feat choices.

Swift Hunter (improves his skirmish damage) and heading for Imp Skirmish and Greater Manyshot is the way to go for this character.

And no, ranged combatants don´t stink. Except for bards changing into troglodytes.