This is just a hack thought, but what if we wanted to rig 5ed to be classless? Could we just do a system where you have a feat a level, or would that not be enough of a bonus? HP and damage are the more tricky aspects because the game expects them to go up in order to keep pace with CR? Has anyone toyed around with this idea before?
D&D 5E Doing 5ed without classes.
Evenglare
Adventurer
Im toying around with doing something... similar I guess? Making classes into "jobs" ala final fantasy. Basically making a "classless" game and then when you have a crystal that grants you a job you get class like features. I'll report back when I have gotten a bit further with my "bare" character class (don't know what else to really call it even though, again, it's not a class).
leinadvirgo
First Post
There was a feature like that in 3e unearthed arcana I think. It had three different progressions, combat, skill, magic. You would start off with your base class then every level pick up abilities from a list, kinda like how feats work but a bunch of class abilities.
That's what I would do, create a list of abilities and you pick from the list every time. Just have to watch out that you don't create it so there is an optimal build, so ensure you don't add much that can stack.
I don't have my book so I can't give anything specific. But make sure that anything that has a progression requires to pick it multiple times, like to increase sneak attack damage you would have to pick sneak attack again (wit some type of level requirements)
That's what I would do, create a list of abilities and you pick from the list every time. Just have to watch out that you don't create it so there is an optimal build, so ensure you don't add much that can stack.
I don't have my book so I can't give anything specific. But make sure that anything that has a progression requires to pick it multiple times, like to increase sneak attack damage you would have to pick sneak attack again (wit some type of level requirements)
famousringo
First Post
Very tricky. One "feat" per level wouldn't be enough, as classes often get two, more if you're going to count things like caster levels and hit dice as "feats." And some of those abilities are "ribbons" while others scale with level (eg, a wizard's Arcane Recovery gives them an extra Magic Missile at level 1, an extra Wish at level 18).
It could be done, but it would be a lot of work, and probably riddled with munchkin powergaming holes. You're basically stripping down the whole class system and rebuilding it.
It could be done, but it would be a lot of work, and probably riddled with munchkin powergaming holes. You're basically stripping down the whole class system and rebuilding it.
transtemporal
Explorer
A while ago I played around with a classless system where instead of earning XP, you earned power points which you could spend out-of-session to improve your character or gear or castle or whatever (similar to Big Eyes Small Mouth but with a DnD scope). You could also spend them (either permanently or temporarily) in-session to power up attacks and spells. It was good in theory but too complex in practice. DnD has quite a lot of crunch and trying to assign a relative value to everything was too hard. Like, how many points is Githyanki race worth against Vampire? (And the setting was Planescape, so that was an entirely possible conversation).
Is there a particular reason you want to do this with 5e?
There a number of great systems out there that are classless, so you wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel. Mutants and Masterminds whilst fundamentally a superhero game, can be used to run basically anything. It's a heavily modified d20 system so it has it's roots in D&D so it might be similar to what you're after.
If you're set on 5e, you could look at Mutants and Masterminds as inspiration, giving 5e the same treatment.
If you're
There a number of great systems out there that are classless, so you wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel. Mutants and Masterminds whilst fundamentally a superhero game, can be used to run basically anything. It's a heavily modified d20 system so it has it's roots in D&D so it might be similar to what you're after.
If you're set on 5e, you could look at Mutants and Masterminds as inspiration, giving 5e the same treatment.
If you're
Gladius Legis
Legend
Plenty of RPG systems out there work wonderfully without classes.
D&D is not, never has been, and never will be one of those.
D&D is not, never has been, and never will be one of those.
Mercule
Adventurer
Having tried the idea of classless D&D, in the past, I strongly advise against it. Trying to remove classes and/or levels from D&D makes the wheels come off the whole thing. I didn't try the UA variant that [MENTION=84122]leinadvirgo[/MENTION] mentions, but it seemed like it would be the closest thing that could actually work.
If it really bothers you, try another system. I'm not aware of anything at the same granularity/complexity level that D&D has, though. If you want more detail, go for Hero for balance and utility or GURPS for verisimilitude (pseudo-realism). For lighter-weight systems, either Savage Worlds for crunchy but fast or FATE for character/story driven would be good choices. I strongly prefer Hero over GURPS, and the Fantasy Hero sourcebook has enough pre-built options that it's almost at the D&D level of complexity -- at least the GM has to understand the underlying system complexities, though.
If it really bothers you, try another system. I'm not aware of anything at the same granularity/complexity level that D&D has, though. If you want more detail, go for Hero for balance and utility or GURPS for verisimilitude (pseudo-realism). For lighter-weight systems, either Savage Worlds for crunchy but fast or FATE for character/story driven would be good choices. I strongly prefer Hero over GURPS, and the Fantasy Hero sourcebook has enough pre-built options that it's almost at the D&D level of complexity -- at least the GM has to understand the underlying system complexities, though.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Definitely something that's been on my mind.
I can tell that proficiency bonus takes care of much of the heavy lifting accuracy-wise. We'll want something to scale damage, too - I think the spell scaling rules from the DMG might come in handy here, but the actual classes have a pretty high variation (sneak attack, extra attacks, spells, some combination of the above). Monster HP might be a starting point for that, too (with the 3 hits/monster estimation). What I'd like is something more robust for determining damage/level (has anyone over on CharOp done an average damage/level chart? That could be useful info).
Once you have that, it's just a matter of figuring out what level of horizontal advancement you want. 1 feat/level can work okay, but the playing field is a little all over the place (some class features are DEFINITELY worth more than 1 feat, but you can't swap 'em for ability score advancements; others are weaker than 1 feat), so you might want to create a category for those "bigger than a feat" things.
Mostly its the damage-per-round/level holding me up from getting a good handle on it, but that seems like a solvable problem. While it dramatically changes the feel of play, I don't think it's nearly as impossible as some posit.
It doesn't take much to prompt me. I saw someone say they wanted a PnP verson of Deus Ex, I thought oh that whould be neat, I wonder if I can hack it into D&D (I kind of like the system.), but it's not really a class like setting, so can you even do classless in D&D. Then I made this thread to explore the idea.
